[Avodah] Pesukim LeShemos Anoshim

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

Isaac Balbin wrote:
> Zev Sero wrote:

>> Chanun and Asher basically mean the same thing.

> Not sure how “basically” fits in here

They have the same basic meaning.  Both Asher and Chanun can be translated
as "Zelik".


>> What do you mean "also"?   Selig is the German spelling.  It's pronounced
>> "Zelig".

Sorry, I meant it's pronounced "Zelik".  My point was that *nobody*
pronounces it with a samech.


> The end part it pronounced it at least two ways by Germans, but not with
> a Kuf or Gimel sound.
> Which Posuk would a German Jew use. I’ve heard Chof and Ish as the
> end pronunciations. In Gittin you’d probably need to write both.

Zelich, and Zelish?!  How does a German G become those sounds?  Those
are the sounds various dialects of German use for "ch", not for "G".
The Dutch pronounce every G like a chof, so maybe Berliners do too, but
surely not any other Germans.  And I don't see how anyone could turn it
into a shin.


Micha Berger wrote:

> FWIW, I usuallly hear the Yiddish pronounced "Zeligk" and by the more
> Polisher and Galicianisher, "Zeiligk". (These are the same people who
> make a berakhah to the "MEI-lekh ha'olam"...)
>
> I thought it was a similar phonology pattern to "bundt" -- using the
> voice for only the first part of a plosive sound.

That's exactly what it is.  In German a G at the end of a word is
pronounced K, and a D at the end of a word is pronounced T.  Thus a
phonetic transliteration would use kuf and tes, except in cases where
Yiddish pronunciation has softened them back.


> Gotta admit, not too interested in the German original, unless the
> discussion was about a /Yekke/ who was looking for the appropriate pasuq
> for his name.

The German original is interesting for two reasons:  How it would be
spelt in a German get, and to understand why it's often spelt with a gimel.
Are those who spell it with a gimel actually representing a G sound, or
are they just blindly copying the German orthography?

If someone would find the Mahari Mintz we could have a more informed
discussion but I've got about 20 other things on my plate right now.


-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
zev at sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis