[Avodah] Mezonos Becomes HaMotzi

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 03:28:17PM +1000, Isaac Balbin wrote:
: I'm not sure I follow. Where is your source that bread must function
: as a scoop tool to be bread. I've certainly seen Tshuvos where the
: question of herring on a piece of bread is a question...

You're skipping WAY ahead in history. I am talking about how people ate
when Chazal set up the idea of kevi'as se'udah.

As a matter of historical fact, in Chazal's mileau, kevi'as se'udah on
bread was very literally true. That's how people ate. And when you read
the gemaros with that cultural awareness, you see how in these sugyos,
they are referring to that style of eating; such as when they refer to
hamotzi and bentching covering lefes and not demanding separate berakhos.

Yes, herring on challah would be lefes. And, as I noted, a sandwitch is
pretty similar as well.

But a typical Ashkenazi Shabbos meal, and for that matter for most
Sepharadim today, we do not use bread in a manner nearly as central to
the meal as Chazal were taking for granted.

I did not assert that bread MUST function as a scoop; I ASKED how we
knew this was not the criterion in question. Given that Chazal take it
for granted.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The meaning of life is to find your gift.
micha at aishdas.org        The purpose of life
http://www.aishdas.org   is to give it away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Pablo Picasso