[Avodah] Rav Melamed on Metal Pots

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 09:32:38PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: My second question is to understand how that experimentation was performed.
: Clearly, Chazal felt that the tastes of the first food *do* appear when the
: pot is used later. So what has changed? Is the chemical composition of the
: metal a factor? Does the thickness of the walls matter? Is it the
: smoothness of the finished product? Does it have something to do with how
: the pot is cleaned between uses?

This assumes ta'am even means "taste" in the literal sense. Taamei
hamitzvos aren't about tastes. Yes, it's clear from rules like kefeila
that there is some connection to actual taste. But it could be about
the expectation of a taste rather than the taste itself.

For that matter, even look at the rule of kefila. A machloqes about
whether it means that there is no bitul beshishim when a chef can taste
the minority substance (Beis Yoseif, I think based on the Ramban), or
whether it means there is bitul of even greater proportions when the chef
can't (Ri). (And, the AhS adds, what a chef might taste of a 1:60 minority
is so weakened it's not real ta'am.) Rashi only allows bitul beshishim
when either confirmed by kefeila or there are no chef's available.
And the Rambam allows eating the food if batul beshishim OR kefeilah!

Notice how many opinions would ban a food even if an expert epicurian
found no taste -- because it wasn't batel. And how the AhS distinguishes
between tastes that qualify as ta'am and those that don't. So somehow,
even the din of kefeilah doesn't necessitate defining ta'am in chemical
presence or even biological terms.

I became very suspicious of a chemist's / physicist's definition of nosein
ta'am when I realized how absurd of an over-estimate it is to require
bitul beshishim of the whole keli. I mean, it's impossible anyone thinks
the pot possibly absorbed nearly it's own volume of gravy from that last
fleishig dish. Even with 3rd cent iron pots.

But then again, I am sure many here have grown tired of my theorizing
that since halakhah has to do with impacting souls, it is more related
to psychology and existentialism than physics and ontology.

I do think the smoothness of the pot is a big factor. Today's polishing
leaves a lot fewer cracks for gravy to hide in than anything that could
have been madde in Rebbe's or even Rabbeinu Tam's day.

The thickness of the walls matter, but since it's proportional, bitul
beshishim takes that into account without wondering what ta'am means.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             You will never "find" time for anything.
micha at aishdas.org        If you want time, you must make it.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Charles Buxton
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