[Avodah] how do you teach emuna?

Micha Berger via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Thu Aug 4 13:30:09 PDT 2016


There are two questions here.

On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 10:10:20PM -0400, Akiva Miller wrote:
: If there are any irrefutable proofs, I haven't heard of them. For every
: "proof" I've heard for G-d, emunah, etc., there *are* doubts and questions
: that can be raised.

: However, while some people consider the doubts and questions to be
: reasonable and significant, others consider them to be ridiculous and
: insignificant...

RAM is writing about the question of teaching people whether to believe.

I happen to agree with him.

As Rihal has the Chaver say in Kuzari 1:13in response to the king's
description of the philosopher's position:
    That which you describe is religion based on speculation and
    system, the research of thought, but open to many doubts. Now ask
    the philosophers, and you will find that they do not agree on one
    action or one principle, since some doctrines can be established
    by arguments, which are only partially satisfactory, and still much
    less capable of being proved.

It is ironic that this section of the Kuzari was itself turned into a
proof. He lauds mesorah over the need for proof, and that is mined for
ideas to turn into just such a proof?

I think emunah has to start with the heart. When someone gets a question
they cannot answer, they could assume there is none and their emunah is
weakened ch"v. Or, they could shelve the question -- so confident in th
emunah that they assume an answer exists and hope to sfind out what it
is someday.

The difference between the two responses is whether their experience
with Yahadus engenders that confidence.

In general, deductive proofs are built up logically from a set of
self-evident postulates. However, when not dealing with sensory input,
what makes those postulates self-evident?

In science, theories are built by induction from experimental data.
It's not reliable, which is why some theories get disproven. But often
you build from so much data that the idea being basically correct -- or
yeilds basically correct predictions -- becomes beyond reasonable doubt.

And that's why, as the Rihal notes, two philosophers can equally
convincingly argue for contradictory conclusions. Not only can they have
a difference of opinion about whether the deductive logic is valid,
they could find different sets of postulates self-evident. And when
the givens aren't empirical, so we can't share our evidence behind
our choice of postulates, deductive proofs are really just arguments,
without the certainty we would like to think they offer.

Contrary to the Rambam, and that whole era of Kalam / Scholastic
Philosophy, most people in practice do not keep Shabbos because they
proved Hashem's existence from first principles, prove that a First
Cause must be Good, that a Good G-d must have provided some kind of
moral guidance ... Torah ... TSBP.... Shabbos, halachic process, etc...

Rather the people who keep on keeping Shabbos find tha the experience
satisfies "Man's Search for Meaning" in a way that argues in favor
of the halachic process, TSBP, its claims about its own originals, and
so on back up to G-d.

It's a first-hand experience we can't simpy share with others, and with
those who go OTD, we obviously didn't do so well enough to justify
the personal cost to keep on observing. And even of those who didn't,
some simply have other costs that keep them following mitzvos anashim
meilumadah.

And the same psychology of those who go OTD comes to play among those
who become BTs. Experience, emotions, and the threshold of personal
cost.

This is the reason for those cynical comments about kiruv being more
about chulent than talmud Torah. Hopefully you haven't heard them.
But that's the seed of truth.

Only a seed. Because the aesthetic elegance of talmud Torah is itself
an emotionally charged experience. For that matter, even mathematicians
are more willing to believe a beautiful proof.

On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 09:45:07AM +0300, Simi Peters wrote:
: Best way to teach emuna?  Individually, according to the needs of the
: student.  It's not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

: Absolutely best way to teach emuna?  By example.  If you've thought a lot
: about issues of emuna (which is usually a good idea), you can often use your
: conclusions to educate your children when they ask questions...

RnSP is answering a different question. Once you have a student / child
reacy to believe, how do we teach them the content of /what/ to believe
beyond the first couple of iqarim they accepted.

And I agree with her as well. When Shelomo haMelekh says "chanokh lenaar
al pi darko" he isn't "only" speaking of individualized educational
strategies. Although he could mean that too. He is referring to something
they will not veer from even when they frow old. (Mishlei 22:6) A
derekh hachaim.

I have often said here, perhaps on Areivim, that as many kids who leave
the MO world because it is too open and holds too many enticements other
than torah, as many leave the chareidi worlds because they are too narrow
in roles for adults and feel stifling. Especially if the ideal role isn't
one they are constitutionally fitted for -- like an ADHD boy who is raised
believing he will always be 2nd-rate because he can't sit and sheig.

If our communal walls were lower, so that we were willing to raise our
children al pi darkam, not according to our own derakhim, far fewer
would leave.

But first, most do not even learn a derekh. We teach halakhah, the
are of walking (check the /hlk/ shoresh) but not a derekh. Aggadita
is taught in vertlakh; not as a coordinate full-blown and consistent
picture. (The DL world in Israel is somewhat better than most in this
regard.)

Yes, when we start doing so, we can discuss which derekh to teach and
how to find a moreh derekh if one happens to be better suited to a
different derekh than one's parents'/

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man is a drop of intellect drowning in a sea
micha at aishdas.org        of instincts.
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507



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