[Avodah] Geonim, Rambam and Other Rishonim on Mesorah and Pesak

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 05:21:20PM -0400, H Lampel via Avodah wrote:
: For clarity's sake, Here's [R/Dr Halbertal's]  thesis:
...
: 1. Retrieval: G-d revealed every single detail about how to perform
...
: 
: 2. "Accumulative": G-d did not give complete instructions as to how to
...
: 3. Constitutive: G-d did not reveal any details of mitzvah observance.
...

This is way too oversimplified, and the difference between Accumulative
and Constitutive models is made more stark than what the essay actualy
describes.

I will ignore his portrayal of the geonim, because -- as you note --
I am not convinced on that point either.

The difference between these two models is more whether:

1- G-d gave neither position at Sinai, and the poseiq's job is to
extrapolate and interpolate from what we have to created new positions
than then "Accumulate", or
2- Hashem gave both positions at Sinai and therefore it is the job of
the poseiq to decide which shitah should be "Constitute" the din.

IOW, how do we understand "peirush" -- is it a tool for posqim to use
to invent new halakhah, or something inherent in the Torah for posqim
to discover?

: 1) Together with every mitzvah that HaKadosh Baruch Hu gave to Moshe
: Rabbeynu, He gave its payrush... and everything included in the
: posuk... This is the meaning of the statement, "The general principles,
: the particulars, and the details of the entire Torah were spoken on
: Sinai" (Sifra, Vayikra 25:1)," namely, that those matters which may
: be extracted through the interpretive rule of "the general reference
: written in the Torah followed by a particular reference," or through
: any of the other interpretive rules, "were received by us through Moshe
: [who received them from God] on Sinai."

Rambam here tells you that by "peirush" he means the former -- we
received through Moshe the interprative rules for creating the particulars.

He could equally as well be saying the latter definition, except that
this would require ignoring how the Rambam himself says machloqes works.
Skipping ahead to where you address that:
: One must strive to get a complete picture of a Gaon's or rishon's
: position, and not stop at some broadly-worded statements, ignoring further
: qualifications...

Except here there are no further qualifications. You are arguing from
example, not contrary explanation. At most it would show that the broad
statement might be a rule that yet has exceptions. (Eg the cases where
the SA doesn't follow his self-declared "beis din".)

: to an opposing opinion (such as that of the Karaites) that entailed
: strongly-expressed verbiage...

My real problem here is that you're calling for an esoteric interpretation,
that the rishonim quoted didn't really mean what they said. Even if true,
it reduces the whole exercise to a Rorschach Test. If the Rambam doesn't
mean what the book says, we should just drop any any attempt to determine
what he really did hold. This ways lies non-O academic understandings of
the Moreh and other such shtuyot; the methodology is useless.

Jumping back for a bit:
: 3) Temura states "1,700 kal vachomers and gezeyra shavvos and dikdukei
: soferim became forgotten during the days of mourning for Moshe, but
: even so, Othniel ben Kenaz retrieved them through his pilpul...

The difference being, that in an Accumulative system, Osniel ben Kenaz
could hypothetically have been *wrong*; BH he wasn't. There was a
particular shitah that was made din, and he managed to retrieve it.
Whereas in a Constitutive system, whatever shitah he justifies would
then be the version of divrei E-lokim Chaim that is the new din.

With a HUGE resulting difference in the power of later authorities to
second-guess those conclusions.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha at aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter