[Avodah] Fwd: tora of convicts

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 07:45:55PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
:   "If the rabbi is as an angel of G-d, learn Torah from him; if he is
:   not as an angel of G-d, do not learn Torah from him" (Chagiga 15b).

R' Shimon Shkop discusses this gemara near the end of the haqdamah
to Shaarei Yosher. Leshitaso, there is a difference between a rebbe
from whom "yevaqeish Torah mipihu" and learning from someone else,
who could even be an Acher.

    But to my mind it is worth knowing and contemplating what our Sages
    said on Chagiga folio 15b. How could Rabbi Meir receive Torah from
    the mouth of Acheir [the former Rabbi Elisha ben Avuya, after he
    became a heretic]. Doesn't Rabba bar bar Chana quote R' Yochanan
    [in Chagiga as saying] "What does it mean when it says 'For the
    kohein's lips should keep knowledge; they should see Torah from
    his lips, for he is the angel of Hashem, L-rd of Hosts" (Malachi
    2:7)? If the rav is similar to an angel of Hashem, L-rd of Hosts,
    seek Torah from his mouth. And if not, do not seek Torah from his
    mouth." And the Talmud concludes, "There is no question this [Rabbi
    Meir studying under Acheir] is with someone great, this [the verse]
    is of someone of smaller stature."

    It is worth understanding according to this how Rabbi Yochanan spoke
    without elaboration, since he speaks only of the smaller statured,
    not the greats. One may say that we should be exacting in that
    Rabbi Yochanan said, "seek Torah from his mouth" and not "learn from
    him". For in truth, one who learns from his peer does not learn from
    the mouth of the person who is teaching him, but listens and weighs
    on the scales of his mind, and then he understands the concept. This
    is not learning "from the mouth of" his teacher, but from the mind
    of the teacher. "Torah from the mouth" is only considered accepting
    the concepts as he heard them, with no criticism. And it was by this
    idea that Rabbi Yochanan spoke about accepting Torah from the mouth
    [i.e. uncritically] only if the rabbi is similar to an angel of
    Hashem, L-rd of Hosts.

    And according to this, in Rabbi Yochanan's words is hinted a
    distinction between who is of smaller stature and who is great. The
    one of smaller stature will learn Torah from the mouth, for he is
    unable to decide what to draw near and want to keep away. Whereas a
    person of great stature who has the ability to decide [critically]
    does not learn Torah from [someone else's] mouth.

    Similarly, it's appropriate to alert anyone who contemplates the books
    of acharonim that they should not "learn Torah from their mouths",
    they shouldn't make a fundamental out of everything said in their
    words before they explore well those words.

    Something similar to a reminder of this idea can be learned from
    what the gemara says in Bava Metzia, chapter "One Who Hires Workers"
    [85b]. Rabbi Chiya said, "I made it so that the Torah would not be
    forgotten from Israel." It explains there that he would plant linen,
    spread out nets [made of tat linen, thereby] hunt deer, made parchment
    [of their hides], and wrote [on them] chumash texts. This hints that
    whatever is in our power to prepare from the beginning of the Torah,
    it is incumbent on us to do ourselves, according to the ability that
    was inherited to us to explore and understand. And not to rely on
    the words of the gedolim who preceded us.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One doesn't learn mussar to be a tzaddik,
micha at aishdas.org        but to become a tzaddik.
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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