[Avodah] Hagada's response to the rasha

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 04/18/2016 07:51 AM, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> The Hagada's section about the rasha can be divided into four sections:
>
> (1) what the rasha says/asks: Mah haavoda hazos lachem
> (2) a perush on what he really means: lachem v'lo lo, kafar b'ikar
> (3) the proper response: hak'heh es shinav, baavur zeh
> (4) a perush on the response: he would not have been saved
>
> (I am deliberately not translating "hak'heh", as it would distract us
> from my question.)

I will, however, point out that translating it "knock out", or as
any kind of blow, is completely ignorant. There is simply no way
that it can mean that.  So where does this stupid idea come from?
It *could* come from some amhoretz confusing it with "hakei", hei
kaf hei, meaning to hit.   But I think it's more likely to come
from Yiddish, a language the baal hagada never even heard of, and
the phrase "hack ois", or in English "hack out".


> My question is about the third of these. If the hagada would simply
> have said, "Hak'heh his teeth, and tell him, Baavur zeh...", that
> would fit ALL the various translations and explanations that I can
> remember.

What specific wording are you suggesting instead of the ones the baal
hagadah uses?


> What is being added by these words "v'af atah". "And even you should
> hak'heh his teeth". There seems to be some sort of logical argument
> being made, that there is someone else who would *obviously* hak'heh
> his teeth, but no, even you! You must do it too!
>
> Am I totally off track?

I think so.  How else should the baal hagada  transition from what your
wicked son says to how you, the father, should respond?  He explains
that your son is saying something harsh to you, so you should also say
something harsh to him.


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
zev at sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".