[Avodah] Moshiach Ben Yosef

[Isaac Balbin via Avodah]

Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 09:10:13 -0500
From: Zev Sero via Avodah <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>

>> Pshat in the Rambam is (and I never noticed this before) that he is
>> already a melech, and then we enter into the question of whether he
>> has chezkas moshiach. Which, I think, makes it possible to strengthen
>> RIB?s question, namely, what specific practical difference does it
>> make that an individual is b?chezkas moshiach, over and above all the
>> authorities he already has as a melech?

> Perhaps that he is the king of Israel, but we are not there, so he's not
> necessarily *our* king.

This is a Childdush, I have never heard such a Svora based on a Moshiach
Medrash or Ma'amar Chazal. Using the Rambam, one would think that the
people supported Bar Kochba especially after Rabbi Akiva identified
him as Chezkas Moshiach because he was exactly like a King---a warrior
with clout. Could you imagine some Nebach claiming to be a King and
then we thinking he could continue with the steps of the Chazoko to
do the rest? How many steps do you have to do in fact to attain the
Chazoko? All? If so, it's death or failure that removes the potential.

Does Chazaka in that Rambam have its standard meaning or is it perhaps
a looser term for someone who POTENTIALLY appears to be on the path to
doing what's required to be Moshiach but loses that potential status if
they don't achieve it.

Interestingly, the Gemora in Sanhedrin 92a says

Three come when we are unaware (not focussed on them) The Moshiach,
a found article (Yiush) and a Scorpion.

How that Gemora fits into the Rambam's Ikkarim is very interesting,
and I think it can if we follow Rav Y.H. Henkin's Tshuva in Bnei Bonim 3
Ma'amar 3, it is understood. He doesn't contend that we believe is that he
will come every day, but rather that every day we believe he can come. A
subtle but significant difference which he backs up. I'm aware others
think differently, e.g. http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/hebrewbooks
org 50622 156.pdf

In fact, if you look at the words of the Rambam he says Achacke Lo B'Chol
Yom Sheyavo. He doesn't say Achake lo Sheyavo Bchol Yom. V'dok.

>  If we are to assume he's melech hamoshiach then
> he's the king of all the Jews.   
> Or perhaps even if we're living in EY,
> who says we have to recognise him as our king?  
>  Perhaps until he has shown
> some sign of being for real we can ignore his *claims* of kingship, much as
> we ignore crazy people who claim to be all sorts of things, but once it
> appears that he is the real deal we must submit to him.

So if that's the case, why not make him formally King once he has DONE
all those things. One must say that it's BECAUSE he's King-like at least
and that he's able to force all sorts of outcomes on Jews and non Jews
through war and politics and Siyata Dishmaya and heavenly selection.

What is the practical value of the Chazoko? It seems to be a definition
of steps.