[Avodah] Moshiach Ben Yosef

Micha Berger via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Sun Mar 6 08:24:36 PST 2016


On Fri, Mar 04, 2016 at 01:45:24PM +1100, Isaac Balbin via Avodah wrote:
: What is the point of the nomenclature B'Chezkas Moshiach. If I've done
: NOTHING, I might come back and then do the job.

There is no "bechazqas moshiach", as a chalos in an of itself; chazaqah
is not a chalos. There is a chazaqah that a man who did X, Y and Z
would be mashiach, and therefore we presume he is, while being aware
it's a presumption.

The presumption is broken when the man fails. The Rambam includes his
being killed as an end of the chazaqah. But the person who did nothing
has no chazaqah to end.

Then you could argue with messianic Lubavitchers whether

1- The Rambam means that death as a whole ends the chazaqah, because
he cannot finish the job any more than Daniel, Chizqiyahu or Shelomo
haMelekh could. There is no way to apply the chazaqah to any given
dead tzadiq who descends from Shelomo over any other, or over a future
candidate. And thus, no presumption holds.

2- The Rambam means being killed in war in particular, since that's
a pretty definite failure in warfare.

Neither of which I think is relevant to discussing RMMS's candidacy,
since he died before having a chance to lead any wars. The chazaqah
never applied to him to begin with. Was he the most likely candidate in
that era? Even if so, he wasn't a military king, and thus not actually
subject to chazaqah.

...
: And what, pray tell, is the significance of this Chazaka? Chazaka has
: a practical upshot.

Yes, while the king is still alive. We give corporal punishment based
on chazaqah; eg what is determining paternity for arayos, meqlalel,
making him bleed, if not reliance on a chazaqah? And so, someone who
fefied a man who was bechezqas mashiach could be found guilty of moreid
bemalkhus and even killed for it!

Zev wrote:
:> Bar Kochva was meant
:> to be the one, and was derailed by sins (the Rambam is ambiguous about
:> whose sins).  So the chazaka isn't just a description of the state of
:> our knowledge, but also refers to the metzius.

That's not what chazaqah means, though. A chazaqah is a kelal in birur,
not an chalos in itself. Why would it suddenly mean something here.

The notion that R' Aqiva not only relied on a chazaqah but also bisyata
diShmaya happened to have been somewhat right -- BK was in the plans to be
mashiach until a later decision undid him -- doesn't change the meaning
of the word "chazaqah".

Last, I must confess I also do not understand what Shimshon has to do
with our discussion. He wasn't from either David or Yoseif, never claimed
to be mashiach, etc... What do you see his leadership as proving or
disproving or even touching on the topic?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Brains to the lazy
micha at aishdas.org        are like a torch to the blind --
http://www.aishdas.org   a useless burden.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                 - Bechinas haOlam



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