[Avodah] Moshiach Ben Yosef

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 03/03/2016 01:48 PM, Isaac Balbin wrote:
> In that case do you hold halocho psuko that Moshiach can't be dead?

Naturally a dead person can't fight wars, build a beis hamikdosh, or
do any of the other things Moshiach has to do. Once Bar Kochva died he
lost his chezkas Moshiach.

Of course nothing says Moshiach can't have *been* dead. If a dead
person comes to life, he's just as eligible to be Moshiach as anyone
else with his qualifications. Having died isn't a disqualification.
But Bar Kochva didn't come back to life. If he does he can start over,
and if he does as much as he did the last time he will once again be
bechezkas Moshiach, and if he finishes the job he will be vadai Moshiach.
There's no halachic bar to it. But there's no reason to expect any of
that to happen.

And of course once someone has done everything he's meant to do, and
has become vadai Moshiach, then he can die. We pretty much *expect*
that Moshiach will eventually die and his son will inherit his place.
Unless techiyas hameisim comes first, but we have no guarantee of when
that will happen. It could be immediate, it could be 40 years, or it
could be 400 years.


On 03/03/2016 04:08 PM, Isaac Balbin wrote:
> I'm afraid you are now going way out of the plain Rambam. He never
> understood that Gemora about Daniel in the contorted way you are
> proposing. He was simply giving examples of great people who could
> have been Moshiach

What on earth are you talking about?  What gemora, when gemora?  His
only model is Bar Kochva, because that is the only case where we have
a psak din.

You seem to be confusing the Rambam with an inspirational work or a
story book. The Rabmab has *no interest* in telling us what will happen.
We will know the future when it becomes the past.  His only interest is
in paskening what we must do when it's possible that Moshiach is coming.
So he gives the bare minimum requirements for Moshiach; if someone does
such and such you are obligated to rally around him, and if he doesn't
do those things then you are not.  Anything he does beyond the minimum
is very nice, but since it isn't necessary it has no place in a psak din.


On 03/03/2016 06:35 PM, Isaac Balbin wrote:
> You forget the Gemora about if he's from the living which you
> incorrectly take literally.
> The Rambam clearly holds that you don't have two attempts at the job

I have no idea what you're talking about.  I haven't mentioned any
gemora. We're discussing the Rambam and halacha, not agadeta.  The Rambam
does not pasken that a person who has been dead can't be Moshiach.  He'd
have no basis in halacha for such a psak.  Once someone is alive they're
alive, with the same status as any living person.

-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
zev at sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".