[Avodah] 13 Middos

Micha Berger via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Mon Sep 7 16:32:39 PDT 2015

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 10:18:07PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: Yes, that is exactly what it is: magic.  Theurgy, as R Micha calls it.
: Hashem promised that when we say these 13 words He will listen, so we
: say them and invoke that promise.

: Another indisputable example of theurgy in Judaism: burning ketores
: to stop a plague.  This is explicitly not about the kavana, but a
: magical power that the holy ketores has..

Where is this made explicit?

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 10:27:39PM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
:> Hashem doesn't ask us to say the pesuqim, He asks us to do them.

: That's not what Rashi says there.  "She'im yazkirum".

Who said that remembering something in tefillah, unlike lekhishah, talks
about the words themselves without internalization? What's the verb for
tefillah, anyway?

In any case, the idea that it's about saying the words until we're
committed to emulating them isn't mine, it's R' Elimelekh miLetzhinsk's,
the Chafeitz Chaim's and R YL Chasmin's. The latter two relate this
gemara to "mah Hu 'Rachum' af atah..."

Hashem is not only just, He's not a Vatran. The notion of magic words
that gain even a measure of mechilah without necessitating teshuvah
would be very problematic.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             The greatest discovery of all time is that
micha at aishdas.org        a person can change their future
http://www.aishdas.org   by merely changing their attitude.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                   - Oprah Winfrey

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