[Avodah] Rabbi Noach Isaac Oelbaum's Position on the Kosher Switch

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 02:45:53PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
: >Also, in what sense is either a safeiq? Both will eventually happen,
: >the question is when.
: 
: In principle it might not ever happen.
...
: >But it's certainly not "iffy" that we could invoke sefeiq sefeiqa. It's a
: >random length delay, not a doubt whether or not the switch will eventually
: >cause the outcome. The odds the wind will never come, or the randomizer(s)
: >will never produce a combination that causes the switch to be honored,
: >is ignorably small. (No one is selling a switch that may or may not shut
: >the light.)
: 
: Why not?  For the shabbos-keeping household, a switch that sometimes fails
: is better than no switch at all.

You want to ask them why not, feel free to do so. I'm not guessing
why they're not setting the randomizers to make each even that
unlikely. Still, they are repeatedly rolling the dice, the odds
of repeatedly getting "no" falls off geometrically with the length
of time in question.

Ignoring milsa delo shekhicha, the light will indeed go on. They say
the average is "several times" at
<http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/tech/use>.

: The basis of all this seems to be siman 277.  There the concern is that
: even if the wind isn't blowing right now, it might start to blow
: *immediately* as you begin to open the door.   This implies that if we
: can be sure that it won't start blowing until some time after the door
: has been opened it will be OK.  But that whole discussion assumes that
: extinguishing the flame is not the purpose for which the door is being
: opened, it's just a possible side-effect.  Is the halacha different if
: that was the intention?

: >AhS OC 514:11 (still catching up to the yomi schedule after Pesach) quotes
: >the Rama (se'if 3) who in turn cites the Maharil that it's permissable
: >to put a candle in a windy place on Yom Tov that it should be blown out,
: >as long as the wind isn't blowing at the time you're taking it outside.
: >The AhS explains, "For doing so before the wind comes -- that is
: >*geram* kibui".
: 
: But there you're actively taking it to the place where the wind will blow.
: Here you're merely opening the door, so that if/when the wind blows the door
: won't protect the flame.

The AhS invites the comparison, not me. Clearly you're making a disinction
that he holds is without a difference.

BTW, I found a reference to the case in the SA at
<http://www.kosherswitch.com/liv/tech/the-analogy>. To quote:

    An alternative Talmudic analogy:

     * There is a candle burning next to a closed window, and a strong
       wind blowing outside.  Certainly, opening the window on Shabbat is
       forbidden, since the candle will be extinguished immediately.

     * There is a device that can determine if there's no wind currently
       blowing, and it can predict with 100% accuracy that no wind will be
       blowing for at least the next ~5 seconds.  It lights up with a
       green light when it has determined this to be true.

     * On Shabbat, a person opens/closes the window while the device's
       indicator is green, knowing that a wind will ultimately blow and
       succeed in extinguishing the candle.

     * More accurately:  A person opens/closes the window before the wind
       is created, before the candle is placed by the window, at a time
       when the device's indicator is green, knowing that sometimes gusts
       of wind hit the candle [its future location] and sometimes they
       miss, and even when they do strike the candle, sometimes they're
       able to extinguish it, but other times they do not... Welcome to
       KosherSwitch (R).

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 12th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        1 week and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Gevurah: What aspect of judgment
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  forces the "judge" into submission?