[Avodah] Fwd: BeisDin Errs Who Brings the Chattos?

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Wed Feb 27 16:46:39 PST 2013

On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 10:20:37PM +1100, Meir Rabi wrote:
: The Halacha is quite clear. RaMBaM Shegagos 13:1; Following a Posek,
: following a Beis Din...
: WRT grievous errors, i.e. if BD completely forgets about a Halacha the
: ordinary people will ALWAYS bring their own Chattos. There can be no excuse
: to follow BD in such matters. Hil Shegagos that Reb Micha quotes 14:1 -- 
: vehoru la'qor guf migufei Torah; and 14:2, where RaMBaM provides examples -- 
: let's say if BD permit AZ, or to carry mireshus lereshus on Shabbos, or
: that bi'ah is mutar with a shomeres yom -- following such rulings never
: exempts the individuals from bringing their own Chattos. The individuals
: must know that this is not correct.

As is 13:1. See the Lekhem Mishneh, who contrasts 13:1 with 13:5. In
13:1, it is also a grevious error -- one that even the Tzeduqim weren't
making. In 5, it's the kind of error only an am haaretz wouldn't miss.

You are asking me to generalize from zil q'ri bei rav cases.

Meanwhile, while you mention my citation of 14:2, you only mention the
examples of the kelal given in 14:1, not the contrasting cases (starting
with "Aval, if to'u vehoru"). The one time the Rambam *explicitly*
(without needing the LM) gives an error that would require talmud to
catch, he says "... im horu bahen ve'asu rov haqahal al pihen, peturin,
uBD mevi'in qorban..."

And for that matter, I don't think one can draw your conclusion from
Shegagos. Because if a person is supposed to rely on his own talmud
rather than obey authority, then why were the tzibur acting beshogeig?

And for that matter, what does "pesaq BD" mean altogether? I asked ad
absurdum if you meant a person should follow their own daas over an
answer from a capital-G Gaon. But even before the geonim... Would you
say that a pesaq of the Sanhedrin is also authority that one should
ignore in favor of their own daas?

And getting away from ad absurdum... Leshitascha, is there any concept
of pasqening for others left? What reshus is given with a Yoreh Yoreh
if no one should be deciding halakhah for others?

And why acharei rabim lehatos, or halakhah kebasrai, or halakhah keBH,
or keR' Aqiva meichaveiro? Do what you think is right. Is there any
concept of halachic process left without requiring people to turn to
authority even when their own seikhel says otherwise?

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Our greatest fear is not that we're inadequate,
micha at aishdas.org        Our greatest fear is that we're powerful
http://www.aishdas.org   beyond measure
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Anonymous

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