[Avodah] partnership minyanim

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Wed Feb 20 07:59:30 PST 2013

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 02:18:29PM -0000, Chana Luntz wrote:
: However it is somewhat astounding, to my mind, that Rabbi Freundel brings
: this Meiri, Tosepheta and other sources, but does bring what I would
: consider the more authoritative halachic literature on the subject.  In my
: view, the key halachic source is rather this Beis Yosef Orech Chaim Siman 53
: (letter 2):
: "And from the words of our rabbi [the Tur] and the words of the commentators
: that I wrote it is derived explicitly that a katan is not permitted to go
: down before the ark even only on a casual basis and there is to wonder on
: that which is the custom that a katan goes down before the ark on Motzei
: Shabbatot and prays the prayer of Arvit..."

: And so he poskens in the Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim siman 53 si'if 10:
: There is to learn zechut on the places where the custom is for the katanim
: to go down before the ark and to pray the prayer of arvit on Motzei Shabbat.

The BY is a stronger defense of the minhag than the SA. It would seem from
the BY that given a choice, he wouldn't end the minhag. Whereas the SA's
speaking of "limud zekhus" implies to me a disapproval with the minhag,
and just a way to judge those who follow it more favorably.

: Now it should be noted that the Rema in the Darchei Moshe responds to this
: by saying:
: (3)There is not amongst us this custom and greater than this the Maharil
: writes (there siman 8) that one who becomes 13 years on Shabbat is not able
: to be shaliach tzibbur in arvit on the night of Shabbat because we add chol
: to kodesh on erev Shabbat and this addition is not relevant to the years of
: a lad, and since we pray while it is still day he should not pray.  And I
: heard that in the country of [Saxony - as per Lisa] that the minor
: boys are made shaliach tzibbur on the four weeks before their bar
: mitzvah and they should not do so.

What is see is that the Rama and the SA agree that in principle, having
a qatan as a shaliach tzibur is a bad idea. The SA's relationship to
existing minhag aside, he still stands pretty far from advocating it
for those who have no such minhag.

: Now Rabbi Freudel does note this, but appears to treat it as some sort of
: halachic aberration...

But isn't he following the SA in that attitude?


Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
micha at aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l

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