[Avodah] Kaddish

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 03:56:18PM -0500, Lisa Liel replied on Areivim:
>> Of course the right way to pronounce it is: Yisgadeil - with a Tzeirei.

> I can see reasoning on both sides.  On the one hand, the pasuk it's  
> based on is Hebrew, and not Aramaic, so you'd figure the words in  
> Kaddish would be pronounced the Hebrew way.  But since it's immediately  
> followed with shmei raba, and not shmo ha-gadol, it might make more  
> sense to pronounce it the Aramaic way.

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 02:13:08PM +0300, R D Bannett replied (still on
Areivim):
> Re: <<the way RYBS and RAS pronounced it based on the Gra. (Hanhagos
> HaRav in the RH &YK Mesoras Harav Machzorim)? Also the Chaf in Kirusei
> has a Dagesh (dot) in it.>>

> As one known to be against yisgadeil with tzeire, I don't know if it is
> permissible for me to help the yisgadeil'nikim but here I go again.

> And if one wants to follow the Gr"a, please add the other differences? He
> must omit the word yis-halal and say mikol instead of min kol.  And as
> Sefer Hapardes, the origin of the yisgadeil error, states that tiskabal
> is Aramaic it is certainly not tiskabeil. The hybrid kaddish of
> incomplete following of the  Gr'a source reminds me that: Ham'numar
> pasul!

It's weirder than that. "Yisgadal" is in both languages. Which is why
it's parashas "Va'eschanan" not "Va'eschanein". The Gra says to make a
point of saying it in Hebrew, to reference Yechezqeil -- but both "-al"
and "-eil" are used in Hebrew. It takes some deduction to take this to
mean "say 'Yisgadeil' because that's unambigiously in Hebrew".

There us another change in nusach haGra that RDB omitted which has more
impact in meaning than "Yisgadeil veyisqadeish". "Kire'usei" rather than
"khire'usei".

With the khaf, the word is read as flowing from the vowel sound at the
end of "vra". The phrasing is then:
    Yisgadal veyisqadash His great name
    in the world which He created according to His Will

With a kaf, the words are disconnected, so it becomes:
    Yisgadeil veyisqadeish His great name
    in the world which He created
    as per His Will (that His name be Gadol veQadosh)

The latter version is more consistent with the Chazals about "eitz peri"
vs "eitz oseh peri" (that fruit trees do not taste like the fruit in
defiance of His will) and of the moon being smaller than the sun because
the moon objected as opposed to original design.

It is also what we say in "Al hakol", during hotza'as seifer Torah:
    .... be'olamos shebara -- olam hazeh ve'olam haba" --
    kirtzono ukirtzon kol yerei'av...

Obviously the olamos were not created according to the will of those
who have yir'as Shamayim. Rather, what should be according to His Will
and theirs is "Al hakol yisgadal veyisqadash... shemo shel melekh malkhei
hammelakhim..."

And to get back to my opening point, notice that the Hebrew "al hakol"
also has "Yisgadal veYisqadash", despite being in Hebrew. (Not to mention
"veyishtabach, veyispa'ar veyiromam".)

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The waste of time is the most extravagant
micha at aishdas.org        of all expense.
http://www.aishdas.org                           -Theophrastus
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