[Avodah] The Talmud"s Many Demons

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:19:47AM -0400, cantorwolberg at cox.net wrote:
:> There's a big difference between skipping the topic and ridiculing it 
:> the way this guy does.

:> "This guy" is not ridiculing it at all.
:> Whereas Rabbi A. Miller skipped it and said he could not teach what
:> he could not understand, this guy has much more of an insight and
:> understanding and therefore tells it like it is. If one doesn't like
:> that, it is quite unfair to say he is ridiculing it. 

(This topic has gotten a little Areivim-y, but since Cantor Wolberg
doesn't get Areivim, I'm bending the border a bit.)

I don't know if we can assume Adam Kirsch has "much more of an insight".
He may have more secular education, and thus a historical eye toward
Chazal's context. But knowledge isn't insight. With Torah, it's
internalization of knowledge; with academia, one tries one's best to
stay objective. Academic knowledge doesn't provide Torah insight.

R Avigdor Miller, like the denizens of an O mailing list, take Chazal's
words seriously enough to try to find any possible way of understanding
them as saying something we consider within the realm of possibility.

For some of us that may mean adjusting our notion of what is possible.
Are demons more unlikely than angels? But if so, what's with that
cat-ash formula?

For others, it means understanding them as taking the general approach
of utilizing the philosophical theories of their day. In taking this
approach we would ask what phenomena they're trying to address, and how
do we take a parallel approach using the science of /our/ day.

Another direction would be that Prof Levine has been advocating, the
approach of the Rambam, RSRH, RYS and others, that Chazal's non-halachic
writings are allegorical. (PERHAPS a way to balance the desire to record
these ideas with the desiderata of not recording TSBP. Allegory wouldn't
work for halakhah, but for aggadita, the approach at least gives the
mnemonics that would help keep the Oral tradition going.)

Falsifying the "common knowledge" that Chazal repeated for their mashal
has nothing to do with the truth of the nimshal.

All of which are approaches that presume that Chazal know what they're
talking about and our job is to glean wisdom from their words. An idea
central to RAM's teachings (although I doubt he would like the "allegory"
approach much) and yet something we can't take for granted is shared by a
blogger for the Tablet. His thesis is to laud how much Judaism allegedly
"progressed" since the days those words were penned.

And even if Mr Kirsch didn't intend ridicule, the Table's editor chose
a belittling graphic -- a black cat with Rashi and Tosafos on the sides,
as though the cat was the gemara.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It's nice to be smart,
micha at aishdas.org        but it's smarter to be nice.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - R' Lazer Brody
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