[Avodah] geneivas daas [was: Imposing dress codes on non-Jews]

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:17:54 EDT, Zev Sero wrote:
:> Geneivas da'as is learned out from Vayiqra 19:11

: If that's the makor then it says explicitly "ish ba'amiso".

What does that have to do with proving that geneivas da'as is deOraisa,
which the rishonim I pointed you do learn from this pasuq.

I since found the Seforno on Vayiqra 25:17 who says it is assur as a
form of ona'as devarim. Which might explain it's inclusion in SA CM 228
on ona'as devarim. But still, deOraisa.

Now, about geneivas da'as aku"m:
:> more to our point (but less supported) from Bereishis 31:20, "Vayignov
:> Yaaqov es leiv Lavan", an instance of geneivas da'as aku"m.

: And one that was muttar.  Ra'ayah listor!

Actually, this case comes up in discussions of whether one may use
deceit to recover your own propery. (Can you fight fire with fire.)
The assumption is NOT blanket heter.

:> I would also note that midevar sheqer tirchaq is a reflexive lav

: Which is directed to dayanim (and by extension litigants and witnesses),
: isn't it?  Where do we see that it applies outside the context of a
: court case?

Quick source: CC asei 13.

It's a complex inyan. I refer you to
http://www.jewishvalues.us/uploads/101_Emess_vSheker.pdf
You'll see from the Chinukh (source #8) onward, there is a trend to
say that while the iqar mitzvah is by dayanim, "mipenei godel haqilqul"
(to quote the Yad haQetana). It's also relevent to the machloqes about
"qeitzad meraqdim lifnei haqalah", which discusses whether complementing
the bride qualifies as shinui mipenei shalom (tact that isn't quite
lying).

While you're at it, see http://www.jewishvalues.us/uploads/104_Genevas_Daas.PDF
too. It will save a lot of "where do you get?"s.

(For a few years I belonged to a chaburah based on these
booklets, and that's where these opinions were formed. See
<http://www.jewishvalues.us/Sugyos.html> for the full collection.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Worrying is like a rocking chair:
micha at aishdas.org        it gives you something to do for a while,
http://www.aishdas.org   but in the end it gets you nowhere.
Fax: (270) 514-1507