[Avodah] If you have an electronic water meter, can you turn on your faucet on Shabbos?

[Micha Berger]

I needed to edit the other RMB's post, but now, for some reason, the
modified post wouldn't rach the server. So I'm trying this.

-micha

----- Forwarded message from Marty Bluke <marty.bluke at gmail.com> -----
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:48:29 +0300
From: Marty Bluke <marty.bluke at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Avodah] If you have an electronic water meter, can you turn on
	your faucet on Shabbos?
To: The Avodah Torah Discussion Group <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>

R' Liron Kopinsky wrote:  
> Wouldn't your argument be stronger if you argued that the Lo Nicha Lei is
> the type of meter that they use? They could use a non-assur meter, which
> you would prefer, but instead, they are choosing to use the assur kind.

I don't see how that factors into the equation when you turn the water
on on shabbos. Lo Nicha Lei is not in the abstract but applies to the
specific action that you are doing in the current situation. When you
go to turn on the water, the water meter is already in place, we have
to judge your action based on that reality not an alternative reality
where the water company installed a mechanical meter or didn't measure
your use at all. The bottom line is do you want the water meter that
is already installed to record your usage? IIMHO the answer is yes,
because otherwise you have way of paying the water bill.


R' Micha Berger wrote:
>:> I would be happier if PVWC put the meter on a timer and gave me my water
>:>  for free on Shabbos. Therefore, helping them bill me is lo nicha lei.

I replied:
>: And I would be happier if when I cut off the chicken's head it wouldn't
>: die, but it will...

R' Micha Berger replied:
> That establishes that it's a pesiq reishei. Not whether or not nicha lei.
> I'm not trying to reclassify it as gerama or anything, just a type of
> pesiq reishei that many permit.

You are right, but you can't make it lo nicha lei by imagining an
alternate reality where the water company gives you free water. When
you go to turn on the water you have to deal with the current reality
which is that there is an electronic meter which will record your usage
and the water company bills based on usage. Is that nicha or lo nicha
lei? I am saying nicha because if it doesn't record then you can't pay
the bill correctly.