[Avodah] treif anatomy

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 06:27:29PM -0400, Joseph C. Kaplan wrote:
:> The example usually given is the permissability to be mechalel Shabbos
:> to save a baby after 8 months even thugh chazal thought such babies are
:> not viable. ALTHOUGH, I mentioned a month ago the Y-mi Yevamos 24b which
:> indicates that this is only true of 9 month babies. 7 month babies could
:> be born late in the 8th month and are viable. And since you never know
:> which a baby is, I think this Y-mi is a basis in Chazal for saying you
:> save the baby because it's safeiq piquach nefesh.

: I don't understand. Didn't Chazal mean SOMETHING when they said that
: fetuses in the 8th month are not viable? Or was it only a theoretical
: statement (that now appears scientifically incorrect) that never had
: any practical application?

When you say Chazal, you mean specifically the opinion one finds in the
Bavli. Apparently, this was not consensus in EY. I don't know it the
consensus is that a 7 month baby may be born a month later and be viable,
or that there was no consensus either way. Machloqes between EY and
Bavel, perhaps?

The speaker in the Y-mi is R' Zei'ra (R' Zeira in the Bavli), who lived
in Bavel before joining the discussion in the Y-mi. And it's clear from
the quote that he heard the idea that an 8th month baby is not viable;
he "just" limited it to those babies who should have been born in nine.

I would conjecture R' Zeira saw no other way to account for experience --
he knew of 8 month babies who did live.

: As an aside, I've thought for a long time that "nishtaneh hatevah"
: is a concept that separates MO from Chareidim.

That's a consequence of "Garnel"'s idea that the primary chiluq has
become autonomy vs authority. (More than the original split over how
to respond to encounters with modernity.) If you give much more weight
to authority, you will be more willing to suspend judgment to justify
following what they wrote. If you give more weight to autonomy, you'll
gravitate toward shitos that better fit your personal common sense.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             None of us will leave this place alive.
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Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Anonymous MD, while a Nazi prisoner