[Avodah] who is a talmid chacham

[Zev Sero]

On 25/06/2012 4:32 PM, Joseph C. Kaplan wrote:
>> Anyone who is genuinely toraso umnuso (TU) is a TCh.

> Is there any source that says this? If there is, could you please give
> us the citation and the words that actually support this assertion. Or
> perhaps you can give us such support for the definition of Talmid
> Chacham. AIUI, you are equating TU with TCh. Perhaps that is so but
perhaps they are two different concepts.

Are they different concepts?  Where do you get that?


>> And I don't see what basis you could have for denying that
>> such a person is a TCh.

> You are making that comparison so you really have the burden of showing
> it's a correct equation. If it's simply your sevara (to which you are,
> of course, entitled), please say so; if the gemarah (which you refer to
> generally) or someone else has made this equation please say so and give
> us the details. Thanks.

No, you're the one imposing some unspecified other criterion, without
providing a basis.  Just look at the term; doesn't it speak for itself?



On 25/06/2012 4:55 PM, Micha Berger wrote:

> Eg Shabbos 11a quotes a beraisa that says that Chaveirim have to stop
> learning to lein Q"Sh, in contrast to the mishnah there. R' Yochanan
> explains the mishnah refers to Rashbi veChaveirav, who are patur from
> QS -- shetorasan umenasan.

Umenuson.

> But this isn't true of most of Chazal, as R' Yochanan continues, "aval
> anu"!

Was R Yochanan a full-time learner, or did he have another umnus?
I don't know.

> And yet chazal are called talmidei chakhamim.
>
> Along these lines, RHS limits the concept of toraso umenaso as a petur to
> those people who wouldn't stop learning to take care of their own bills.

Does one interrupt ones job to pay bills?


-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name