[Avodah] Kivrey Avos

[Zev Sero]

On 19/06/2012 6:37 PM, Rich, Joel wrote:
> Actually the record is mixed on whether meitim yodim or not.
> Maareh Mkomot available upon request.

The machlokes in Brachos 18a-19a is about whether they know what's
going on *outside* the cemetery.  R Yonoson is the only one who thought
they were completely unaware, and he retracted his opinion.  There is
certainly a lot of material indicating that they are unaware of what's
happening in the outside world, and therefore if one wants them to know
one must go to their graves and inform them; hence Yirmiyahu going to
Mearas Hamachpela and Har Nevo, because without that the Avos and Moshe
would not have heard of the churban.


On 20/06/2012 3:16 PM, cantorwolberg at cox.net wrote:
> /It's an explicit gemara that the nefashos of the dead are aware                      when someone comes to their graves./
> But only for 12 months when the soul hovers over the body. After
> that time period, the nefashos are no longer hovering.
> This is not the only interpretation.

The gemara in Brachos is definitely talking about after 12 months.


On 20/06/2012 3:45 PM, Eliyahu Grossman wrote:
> While there are
> some commentators that consider this history, and therefore proof that the
> dead are aware of the living, many others hold that it is not history, and
> that the dead know nothing at all

Who are these?

> (which was King David's position on this,
> which is reflected in our tachanun).

Where?

> As for the Zohar, well, that's a different discussion.

No, it isn't.  The Zohar is an authoritative source for Jewish hashkafa,
just as much as the gemara.
  
> I cannot find anywhere in Nach where it says that Yirmiyahu specifically
> went to between Nebo and Chevron to enlist the aid of the deceased.

Everything has to be explicit in Nach?!

> Unless
> it's a commentary that cites another source and ties them together. Could
> you cite that source for me? Thanks!

"Az bahaloch Yirmiyahu al kever Avos".

-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name