[Avodah] Kivrey Avos

[Eliyahu Grossman]

Yes, the Gemara has an odd story about a fellow who gets into a fight with
his wife, sleeps in a graveyard, and hears ghosts speaking, and it repeats a
year later, and for some reason he sleeps in the graveyard again and hears
these pair of ghosts again. The next year, they shut up. While there are
some commentators that consider this history, and therefore proof that the
dead are aware of the living, many others hold that it is not history, and
that the dead know nothing at all (which was King David's position on this,
which is reflected in our tachanun). As for the Zohar, well, that's a
different discussion.

I cannot find anywhere in Nach where it says that Yirmiyahu specifically
went to between Nebo and Chevron to enlist the aid of the deceased. Unless
it's a commentary that cites another source and ties them together. Could
you cite that source for me? Thanks!

Eliyahu Grossman.

-----------------------[Original Post]---------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:06:01 -0400
From: Zev Sero <zev at sero.name>
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Kivrey Avos

It's an explicit gemara that the nefashos of the dead are aware when
someone comes to their graves.  And it's an explicit Zohar that when
the world needs rain we should bring a sefer torah to the cemetery and
inform the nefashos of dead of our plight; they then go to Chevron to
inform those who lie there, and together they go up to the higher worlds
and inform their neshamos, and they intercede for us, and we get rain.
The Zohar also explicitly says that "vedoresh el hameisim" refers to
resha'im, who are called dead even in life, and not to tzadikim, who
are called alive even in death.


> [Examples of Kalev, Yosef, the Jews at Kever Rachel]

There's also Yirmiyahu, who went both to Chevron and to Har Nevo
to enlist the aid of the Avos and Moshe Rabbenu.