[Avodah] Kivrey Avos

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 07:37:16AM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! wrote:
: Is it not contrary to our beliefs to propose that anyone is beyond
: salvation?

Doesn't that depend on how one explains the bas qol Acheir heard that
said he couldn't do teshuvah?

Second, one cheit does not qualify as "beyond salvation". Perhaps this
one sin was beyond their nequdas habechirah whether or not they went to
qivrei avos. But given enough time, they could improve themselves.

Especially since redemption is on a meta level -- not where one is, but
which direction one is heading in. So they don't even have to be beyond
some point to be redeeming, they need to "only" be reaching for that
level.

As R' Ezra Bick put it: The most transcendent thing about man is his
very ability to transcend.


: But my query was not about the spies seeking salvation through prayer but
: about them WANTING to visit Kivrey Avos. These days it would be unthinkable
: that any ehrlicher Yid, other than those who as a matter of principle,
: would visit EY and not visit Mekomos HaKedoshim.

Maybe: ha'oseiq bemitzvah patur min hamitzvah. Unless the visit would
help the mission HQBH told Moshe to send them on, maybe it would have
been wrong to interrupt it for the visit.

Or maybe that was part of the blunder.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             None of us will leave this place alive.
micha at aishdas.org        All that is left to us is
http://www.aishdas.org   to be as human as possible while we are here.
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Anonymous MD, while a Nazi prisoner