[Avodah] Would Ruth's conversion be rejected today?

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, Jun 04, 2012 at 03:08:07AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> Still, it's unlikely.

I agree it's unlikey, but not because of the logistics of Machlon and
Chilion marrying children. After all, that's not a random variable;
if we wish to say both married childre, then we would need to think of
a reason why this is desirable. Shimshon's experience would shed some
light. Also, given the promiscuity of Moav, perhaps marrying a girl who
wasn't yet 3 had that motivation.

I think it's unlikely because there is a machloqes about when they were
meguyaros, my suggestion would avoid many of the problems each tzad
has with the other, but no one that I know of (except RRW's variant)
put the idea out there. That makes it more likely that there is a flaw
out there I don't yet see with saying they were megayaros as qetanos
and then Rus confirmed before beis din in EY.

Although portraying Rus as a 12 year old makes her dependency on Naami's
advice very natural. OTOH, an immigrant from a foreign country would
also be very dependent.

On Mon, Jun 04, 2012 at 02:47:52AM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: It would certainly resolve most of the problems. But some would still
: remain: Granted that such a ger does have the right to cancel the gerus,
: but we don't recommend it, do we?

: When a non-Jew wants to convert, we test his resolve by turning him
: away. But "ad k'day kach" to do that to someone who already converted,
: behaved as a Jew for ten years, and has now reached adulthood?

In the case in the gemara, the girl is married to a kohein and eating his
terumah, so yes, it's in her best interest to affirm her Jewishness. And
in the typical case nowadays, it is an adoptive child remaining with
the religion of her parents, as well as the lifestle she was raised with.

But Orpah had no family. Her prospects were such that Naami would soon
tell everyone to call her Marah. Naami points out the unlikelihood of
their marrying if they choose not to retroactively anul their geirus.

When we convert a child al da'as someone else, we are relying on zakhin
le'adam shelo befanav. Perhaps Naami simply didn't see their lives
in Yehudah as likely to be much of a zekhus, and told her to do the
"intelligent" thing.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
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