[Avodah] torture in halacha???

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Tue May 15 07:05:44 PDT 2012


On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 10:47:40PM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
: I would think that the only criterion would be "is it necessary?"
: Just as in tzaar baalei chayim.

In general, halachic ethics are deontological, not consequentialist.

Consequentialism: the more ethical choice is the one with the better
outcome.

IOW, if a consequentialist saw a runaway train about to mow down and kill
five people, he would divert the train to a track on which only one
person is stuck.

Deontology: the more ethical choice is the one in which the fewest
rules are violated.

The deontologist would allow 5 to be killed besheiv ve'al ta'aseh rather
than actively murder.

Halakhah's deontological nature is implied by the machloqes Reish Laqish
and R' Yochanan about what to do when an enemy tells a group of Jews to
either turn one of their number over to be executed, or all will be killed.

Consequentally speaking, the logical thing to do is to pick one to be
killed, since if you don't, that person will be killed anyway -- along
with the rest of the group.

But neither RY nor RSBL tell us to do that. Rather, one may only do so
if the enemy says "turn over Sheva ben Bikhri" (to give the example
from Shemuel II). And according to RSBL, this was only because David
haMelekh knew Sheva b Bickri is chayav misah -- otherwise their naming
a particular victim doesn't matter.

This came up lemaaseh during the first Lebanon War. (Story heard from
RARakeffetR.) 5 soldiers went into a building in Berut to check if it
was safe. They make it to the top of the building, and having completed
their inspection, gave the all clear. 100 or so chayalim start storming
the building when the enemy blows it up.

Does one:

Recover the 5 boys at the top of the building in hopes of saving them?
But then meanwhile, more of the chayalim who are trapped further down
in the rubble will die.

Or:

Bulldoze away the top layer of the rubble, killing the 5 boys (some of
who are likely dead already, all of whom are omedim lamus without help)
in order to save far more boys overall?


Back to nidon didan...

For this reason, we can't simply say that torture is justified
when you can inflicting no more pain than you are saving. That's
consequentialist. Deontologically, we might require more suffering rather
than actively inflicting pain.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 38th day, which is
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