[Avodah] two fictional sects

David Riceman driceman at optimum.net
Wed Apr 18 14:41:32 PDT 2012


RMB:

<<But that's the idiom, not the concept. These people left their maqom 
and are told to do what their families have been doing for generations.>>

I'm confused by the referent.  Which people?

I hadn't planned to respond, since I think we've thrashed out most of 
our argument: I see the fundamental concept as minhag hamakom, and you 
think it's minhag avos.  Then I realized there's something basic I don't 
understand about your opinion: what's the mechanism?

If the kehillah is enforcing its minhag on future generations it does so 
through neder shel rabbim, which endures as long as the corporate 
structure endures.  IIUC that's why Rabbi Hirsch changed some of 
minhagei Frankfort after his kehillah seceded: he was graphically 
demonstrating that they were no longer the same kehillah, so the old 
minhagim need not apply.

But I don't know of any mechanism which enables me to require my kids to 
adopt a practice without their consent.  The Riceman family is not 
analogous to kehillas PPDM, it doesn't have a corporate halachic 
existence.  What mechanism do you propose enables the obligation of 
"minhag avos", and why didn't it apply to Rabbi Hirsch's kehillah?

David Riceman





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