[Avodah] Theoretical and Practical Shiurim

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 03:08:30AM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: To me, this is all in the realm of "Theoretical Shiurim", at least as
: matzah is concerned. It could also be a "Practical Shiur" for fruit or
: meat or anything else which has no airspace, but not for bread or matzah.

But back in 2003, when we were discussing people who publish kezeisim in
terms of the equibalent weight for a matzah of typical composition, a
wise man thought this was problematic, because
> But *some* air DOES count toward the kezayis, namely the very small
> airspaces. A kezayis which has lots of small airholes will weigh less,
> and a kezayis which has fewer airholes will weigh more.
> 
> What's the solution? Beats me. I'm just gonna follow Rav Moshe's
> measurements and hope that its okay with Hashem.

<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol11/v11n004.shtml#01>

I agree more with what you wrote then. Aside from abnormally large
bubbles, the air is part of the matzah. And thus the same recipe
will yeild different weights -- weight is a poor way to approximate
volume. What I said then was that because we are so bad at estimating
thickness, where 1/12 of an inch looks much like 1/10 but is a difference
of 20% of necessary area, I'm not sure trying to use weight is worse.
Depends on whether bakeries vary on thickness more than on air.

...
: Can someone please explain to me how it was determined that Rav Chaim
: Volozhiner's matzah was 3 cc? ...

We're saying he *wrote* that we should use what is in metric measures 3cc.
RCV said to use today's olives, he measured olives, and got a number. Yes,
for the eidus about the CC's or CI's matzah we would need to know air
content.

And speaking of thickness, drift in thickness over ages would not be
noticed, and by relying on mimeticism you could be eating much much less
(or more, if matzos were getting thinner) than what you thought you
were imitating. Mimeticism is only as good as our ability to precisely
remember matzah thicknesses even when they're so thin that a large
pecentate is still just a smidgen.

: And, by the way -- does this, or does it not, support the view that
: the tiny airholes in a spongy matzah *do* count toward the kezayis?

It would require knowing how the eid estimated the shiur from the
observation.

But I didn't think (nor did you, 9 yrs ago) there was a view that required
reducing matzah to matzah meal, packing it down into a measuring cup,
and seeing how much of a sheet of your brand of matzah fill without air
into a kezayis.

:-)|,|ii , and a :-)|,ii to all our Granikim!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When we are no longer able to change a situation
micha at aishdas.org        -- just think of an incurable disease such as
http://www.aishdas.org   inoperable cancer -- we are challenged to change
Fax: (270) 514-1507      ourselves.      - Victor Frankl (MSfM)