[Avodah] Eidim Zomemin

[Doron Beckerman]

>> 1. 2 witnesses come forward and testify that Reuvain committed a sin
that would be chayav mita bydei Shamayim.  The beit din concurs and then 2
witnesses show up and are meizim the first 2.  Does HKB”H count the 1st 2
witnesses as being chayav mita bydei Shamayim? <<

See Ritva Makos 2b citing the Ramban - "According to the opinion that holds
Kufra (paying kofer for one's Muad ox killing someone is a) kapparah, you
can't have hazamah, since their primary testimony is to render him liable
for Misah Beyedei Shamanyim, as it states 'And also its owner shall be put
to death', and their testimony, in respect to Heaven, changes nothing,
since if his ox killed someone then without their testimony he will be
liable in Heaven, and if not, then their testimony is not going to make him
liable in Heaven, since Heaven has no need for their testimony."

>> 2. 2 witnesses testify that reuvain killed shimon but there was no
hatraah.  The beit din decides reuvain will go into the kippah and be
killed by the food/water treatment.   2 witnesses come  and are meizim the
1st witnesses.  Do the1st set  get sent to the kippah? <<

Why not? Whether you hold Kipah is a Halachah Lemoshe Misinai (Ran) or
Derabanan (Yad Remah) it is still a death penalty that Beis Din imposes.
The Chazon Ish has a Safek whether EZ who testified that one who is
*already* sentenced to kipah deserves the death penalty for something else,
and are found to be zomeim, whether they get killed, but the general rules
of Dinei Nefashos apply.

>> 3. Same as 2 but the community also has a rule that in such a case
reuvain must pay $1000 and cannot be honored at the shul dinner. Do those
restrictions now apply to the 1st witnesses? <<

This probably gets into  the Ramban's first answer of why eidei ben
Gerushah do not pay for the Matnos Kehunah that they wanted to make him
lose. There are different explanations of what the Ramban means in his
first answer, ayyen sham.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120604/6c02770b/attachment.htm>