[Avodah] Evolution

[T613K at aol.com]

From:  Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org>

: What scientists claim is that  evolution can explain the origin of 
species, 
: which is the very thing we  dispute. Not gonna loop to that because it's 
: been done and done and  done...[--TK]

Then you might recall that I posted examples of  documented speciation, and
not "just" to explain the fossil record. Check  out the examples  at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation>.

"Macroevolution",  as far as I can tell, is used in popular parlance only as
a way to divide  off whatever aspect of evolution a Creationist wants to
claim hasn't been  seen in today's world from those that have, so that
they can deny it  occurs. And as more things are proven, "macroevolution"
shifts in meaning.  See 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution#Misuse>.

--  
Micha Berger 


 
>>>>>
 
I read the wiki articles and don't see what they add to the  discussion.  
The first is entirely speculative.  It uses the present  tense as if it is 
talking about something that happens right now under our eyes,  but is in fact 
talking about things that evolutionists believe happened eons  ago:
 
Example: "There are four geographic modes of speciation in nature, based on 
 the extent to which speciating populations are geographically isolated 
from one  another: allopatric, peripatric, parapatric and sympatric." 
 
Example:  "During allopatric speciation, a population splits into two  
geographically isolated populations (for example, by habitat fragmentation due  
to geographical change such as mountain building). The isolated populations 
then  undergo genotypic and/or phenotypic divergence." 
 
Example: "In peripatric speciation, a subform of allopatric speciation, new 
 species are formed in isolated, smaller peripheral populations that are  
prevented from exchanging genes with the main population."
 
Did you get the choice bit about "geographical change such as mountain  
building"?  It's using the present tense to talk about things that take  
millions of years to happen.
 
No new species have ever occurred in actual historic time except in the  
most trivial sense that children come into being that cannot mate with their  
parents -- e.g., some kind of hybrid grass that can't reproduce with its 
male or  female progenitor grasses.  It's still grass with the exact DNA it  
inherited from pater and mater.
 
Not only do they define "evolution" in a very elastic way, they also define 
 "species" elastically, so they can use trivial everyday phenomena to 
"prove"  events that happened millions of years ago.
 
Your second wiki link takes us to an anti-religious polemic dressed up  as 
science.  Done and done and done, thank you.
 
But I do have a question for you.  Why the contempt for  "Creationists"?  
Aren't YOU a creationist?  Don't you /have/ to be a  creationist to be on 
Avodah?
 

--Toby Katz
=============
Romney -- good  values, good family, good hair


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120229/230168b9/attachment-0002.htm>