[Avodah] Clear Thinking About Male Homosexuals

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Jay Shachter wrote:

> The real reason people are friendlier to Sabbath desecrators ...
> than to pederasts is that we are sympathetic to the Sabbath
> desecrators -- in the sense that we understand them. We understand
> how decent people of good will, who were raised without benefit of
> a Torah education, may honestly lack the conviction that Sabbath
> observance in the sense we define it is mandatory.
>
> ... With respect to male homosexuals, people have the sense that
> "they ought to know that this is wrong -- they ought to know,
> inside, on their own, without recourse to authority or to
> tradition, that this is just wrong".

This is an excellently-explained distinction.

However, RJS then goes on to suggest WHY we expect them "to know, inside, on their own, without recourse to authority or to tradition, that this is just wrong". And that is the point that I'd like to question. He wrote:

> Judaism believes that there are seven principles of conduct to
> which all humans must conform.  This means that God rightly
> expects certain behavior even from people who have not had the
> benefit of God's revelation.  Some knowledge is built into the
> human condition.  It is a consequence of being human that you
> know -- you just know -- that murder is wrong.  It doesn't matter
> if you grew up in Harlem, or Germany, or Kampuchea. ... In other
> words, it is an act forbidden not only to Jews, but also to all
> human beings, which means that there is something intrinsic to
> our nature that knows that it is forbidden.  It is this ... that
> people are really responding to when they are less accepting of
> practicing male homosexuals than of Sabbath violators.

This would be quite plausible were it not for Ever Min Hachai. I am not aware of anyone who perceives of Ever Min Hachai as anything but a chok. Despite meforshim who tie it to animal cruelty concepts, there are many actions allowed to the non-Jew which are far more cruel to the animals. Is it not common to refer to Ever Min Hachai as a sort of "hilchos kashrus" for non-Jews?

To me, this argument disproves RJS's assertion that God rightly expects obedience to the 7 Mitzvos Bnei Noach even from people who have not had the benefit of God's revelation. (In my view, He might expect that only from people who *have* had the benefit of receiving a Masorah of G-d's Revelation of these laws to Noach. And unfortunately, as far as I know, that Mesorah has been lost among the non-Jews, and I can't blame any who decline to take our word for it.)

Truth be told, many of the seven are not explicit in the text of the Torah, and the Bnei Noach are dependent on us to learn what these rules are. On one level, although there are stories all over Tanach about when God got angry over us for worshiping false gods, I'd be hard-pressed to find an explicit Lo Taaseh addressed to non-Jews about it, certainly not in the Noach story. On another level, they are *certainly* dependent on us for the details of these laws. To use RJS's example, I cannot believe that the average non-Jewish man has an inborn natural sense that having relations with his mother is "just plain wrong", while with his daughter it is "no problem".

People are *taught* these things. If not from their parents and teachers, then from their peers and culture. But it is *not* innate. I do think that shitos exist which say that a non-Jewish male homosexual who acts on those urges would be considered Meizid, but I do not understand that, and would prefer to consider him Shogeg or Omer Mutar or something similar.

Akiva Miller

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