[Avodah] A Mamzer Marrying a Shifchah

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 03:24:26PM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: R' Micha Berger asked:
:> Possible ways out:
:> a- Is DDD in this sense the law on the books, or the de facto
:> reality? And does your country have enough violators (eg in the
:> prostitution trade) that we can say buying people qualifies as
:> de facto effective (even if illegal)?

: I recall discussing this before, usually in the context of driving
: over the posted speed limit....

Which is why I wronte "DDD in this sense". In #2 I was speaking of DDD
as defining norms for choshein mishpat. The case of violating the posted
speed limit like "everyone else does" is DDD as an issur to violate the
law. There we definitely concluded, as you recall, that the issur is to
violate the law as enforced. Posted speed limit is not enforced.

Here I also was trying to discuss the law as enforced, but not necessarily
followed anyway. (Subsequent replies convinced me I was wrong.) I was
looking for a case where people get caught, but still violate it. Since
I was talking about norms, can a law that is violated even if enforced
still define the norms for personal behavior?

I think RZS's invocation about "kol tenai shebemamon qayam" does address
this concern. One doesn't need to discuss norms if both parties agreed
to do the abnormal.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man is capable of changing the world for the
micha at aishdas.org        better if possible, and of changing himself for
http://www.aishdas.org   the better if necessary.
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning