[Avodah] Lo sosiru- Becoming a Posek

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:09:54AM -0500, Yosef Skolnick wrote:
: 1) Where did the Rabbonim that the passuk is referring to get the ability
: to "Say differently" than other poskim.  At some point in their life they
: weren't a Bar Plugta?  Did they wait, or did they feel comfortable with
: disagreeing even at a younger age?

Isn't the whole point of what we call today a semichah a statement that
the person's opinions matter even though his rav is still alive?

: 2) Is there a responsibility or obligation to only consider the "readings
: of the texts" of our greatest sages?

I think this was an error in my wording. Unless my opinion slipped in
the past couple hours and I didn't notice.

Similarly, on Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:05am CST, Lisa Liel wrote:
> I deny that.  That's as extreme as the OO view that says everyone can
> make their own decisions about halakha.  The truth exists in the middle
> ground between OO and haredism.

What I was speaking to RZS about is a case where he has an opinion that
he didn't identify a poseiq who supports, but we know of numerous poseqim
who deny. In my opinion, it isn't at the extreme -- in this particlar
case -- to say we keep our own opinions lehalakhah velo lemaaseh.

But even what I wrote, as opposed to what I intended, is far different
than daas Torah. I do not wish to repeat DT discussions. Here, the topic
is specifically how one decides how to practice. We have discussed
various poseqim's methodologies for choosing a pesaq, and I guess in
cases where autonomy is appropriate (or the only possibility, depending
on whose around) for the rest of us as well. But I pushed RYS to bring
this discussion from private email to the group because the poseiq -
sho'el relationship and its limits aren't something we discuss regularly.

Returning to RYS (and ":" for denoting quoting):
: 3) Is it possible that someone who is not a Rosh Yeshiva could have a more
: accurate reading of a particular text, perhaps they spent more time
: analyzing that particular text (though clearly not others, otherwise they
: would be a bar plugta), In other words, it is possible to be a bar plugta
: bidavar ached.

I don't think the question is one of accuracy, but authority. Halakhah is
a legal system, not a truth system. Lo sosiru and asei lekha rav mean that
you are supposed to turn to an authority and not take your own opinion
as law. I mean, if it's a zil qerei bei rav issue you found an error
in, you don't follow the Sanhedrin, but on other perceived errors you
do assume they are more likely to be right. I am assuming the same rule
Horios applies to hierarchy under the Sanhedrin applies today to poseqim.
And I agree that's an assumption.

Today's semichah is about giving a man permission to voice his opinion
for others. And thus that authority, if people choose him as their rav.

I am motivated by RARakefferR's turn of phrase "neo-Qaraites". RRW has
voice a similar concept, perhaps here, perhaps in personal email. People
who think it's sufficient to follow halachic texts -- from the extreme of
Ramabamists or those who hold that nothing since shas is authoritative,
to the more common position of a person not having a real rav, and
turning to numerous guides, rumors about what "the gedolim hold"
(as though they always agree), etc...

Halakhah is a living thing, a dialog down the ages. IMHO, to try to be
an O Jew without having that link back is simply not Yahadus.

(The curious might wish to see
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2009/12/my-mesorah.shtml>; I am at most
128 talmidim away from Moshe Rabbeinu: Moshe, Yehoshua, Pinechas... Rav
Shimon Shkop, R' Dovid Lifshitz, me.)

And this mental image of TSBP being a dynamic thing one inherits not only
in formal information but also by having a relationship and shimush from
a rebbe (recall how machloqesei Batei Hillel and Shammai got started)
jars with the notion of relying on one's own understanding of books or
der velt.

I am kind of surprised to learn that there are people here who consider
the fodder of Avodah discussions as anything more as lehalakhah velo
lemaaseh. I took it for granted -- as was obvious from my initial phrasing
-- that all of us kept a firm wall between debating lomdus and practice.

(My original comment to RZS was based on his making a *pragmatic*
statement, that no one would pasqen for a mamzer that it was assur alst
DDD for him to marry a shifcha.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Mussar is like oil put in water,
micha at aishdas.org        eventually it will rise to the top.
http://www.aishdas.org                    - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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