[Avodah] who avoids whom?

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:33:25PM -0000, Chana Luntz wrote:
: I don't see why ein apitropos la'arayos places any greater burden on others
: to avoid lifnei iver and mesayeiah lidevar avairah in these areas than in
: any other area of halacha, nor kol yisrael areivim.  Not that an obligation
: to avoid lifnei iver and mesayeiah lidevar avairah is negligible, but I
: cannot see any justification for making the obligations greater in this area
: than in any other equivalent averah.

I just meant that halakhah already recognizes how hard it is to separate
stimulous from instinctive response in this area. Therefore, the person
who might provide that stimulous should be more cautious than usual.

...
: I don't disagree with this, even this kind of definition of tznius, but
: Kimchis is not necessarily the best example of it.  A much better example,
: as it completely divorces the matter from anything to do with women, are all
: the halachos in the second siman of Orech Chaim regarding appropriate
: conduct in the bathroom.

Kudos for the reminder.

...
: First of all, the question can be asked, how do the chachamim know that it
: is in her merit that all her sons were kohen gadol, maybe it was in the
: merit of her husband, their father? ...

I assume they're saying that such behavior as the story attributes to
Kimchis would be sufficient to explain their being kohanim gedolim. Not
that they were told secrets mei'achorei hapargod.

We also don't know if their explanation is intended to be taken with a
focus on sechar va'onesh, as a statement about causality -- how to impart
the kind of values we need in a kohein gadol, both, or hainu hakh.

...
: Secondly, one of the miracles of the  beis hamikdash was that the kohanim
: gedolim did not become metameh - although one can answer that this was only
: in relation to tumas keri, and not to forms of tumah that are within the
: kohen's power to prevent (or maybe it was bayis rishon, and not bayis
: sheni).

The Y-mi's version says this neis (and most of the nissim of the BHMQ) ended
with Shim'on haTzadiq.

: Thirdly of all there is the practicality of the matter.  Where and how did
: she prepare for eg tevila if she kept the plaits of her hair always covered
: (and presumably plaited)....

Or we can be medayeiq in her saying it was the rafters of her home. When
such uncovering was necessary, she was at the miqvah, not home. I also assume
we aren't lauding a woman for never bathing for cleanliness, either.

: One could say that this is the answer to your question.  After all, the
: Yerushalmi quotes in relation to this story the pasuk kol kavuda bas melech
: penima mimishbatzos zahav.  This story with R' Yishmael apparently happened
: on Yom Kippur, but since he was out in the shuk presumably the garments onto
: which the rok of the nochri fell were indeed the bigdei zahav...

Since he (or anyone) wasn't allowed to wear bigdei kehunah unless doing
the avodah, if he was on that side of the soreg, I would think it must
have been bigdei chol, no?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             If a person does not recognize one's own worth,
micha at aishdas.org        how can he appreciate the worth of another?
http://www.aishdas.org             - Rabbi Yaakov Yosef of Polnoye,
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  author of Toldos Yaakov Yosef