[Avodah] international dateline

[Eli Turkel]

<< This is a false description of the views.  For one thing, R Kasher was
not present at the conference in 1941 where the various shitos were
laid out.  His idea was not one of the the ones discussed, and it did
not play a part in the decision.  Much later, he published a sefer with
maps explaining all the options (and he lists at least a dozen), and
then offers his own "no fixed line" opinion. >>

No one claimed he was in the conference in 1941 and it is irrelevant.

<< For another thing, it lists the BR and CI separately when they're
really variations of the same view;  >>

Basically they agree that the halachic dateline is 90 degrees east of EY.
However, in practical application they disagree. In particular according to
the BT
Melbourne, Sydney and other major Australian cities should keep their
shabbat on sunday.

<< Getting back to R Kasher's opinion, the source quoted misrepresents it >>
ie anyone who disagrees is misrepresenting his view. I strongly object to
Zev's categorizing anyone who disagrees with him as "ridiculous" and I dont
understand how the moderators allow such language.

from the chabad site
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1736567/jewish/The-Sabbath-the-International-Date-Line-and-Jewish-Law.htm


According to Rabbi Menachem Kasher, since there is no clear tradition or
Talmudic source, one should observe the Sabbath when the locals do. Since
we, as individuals, are commanded to count six days and rest on the seventh
12<http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1736567/jewish/The-Sabbath-the-International-Date-Line-and-Jewish-Law.htm>,
when the first Jews settled in remote areas (over a long period of time),
they simply continued counting six days and resting on the seventh. It was
only later, when travel became more frequent, that the question of changing
the dates arose.13<http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1736567/jewish/The-Sabbath-the-International-Date-Line-and-Jewish-Law.htm>

As such, there is no need for any community to change dates from their
established custom (which is basically the same as following the
International Date Line). However, travelers continue counting six days
from the last Sabbath they observed, and the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Only once the travelers arrive at their destination would they follow the
local Jewish community’s
Sabbath.14<http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1736567/jewish/The-Sabbath-the-International-Date-Line-and-Jewish-Law.htm>


<<> As I previously wrote in actual fact all communities that I know
essentially
follow Rav Kasher
<<They could not be doing so, since their practises were established
long before R Kasher was born, let alone before he came up with his shita.>>

Rav Kasher did not invent his opinion he just gave it a strong halachic
basis. I again assert hat the practice in every Jewish community I know is
to keep shabbat on the local Saturday. As SBA has confirmed that even the
machmirim who go from Melbourne to New Zealand keep shabbat on sunday only
le-chumra for a de-oraisa and put on tefillin on sunday ie they are nor
paskening like CI or BR.
If you dont want to call what they do as Rav Kasher I dont care what name
it is called, but as the main halacha they keep shabbat on the local
Saturday both in Melbourne and in Tazmani, New Zealand or Hawaii

-- 
Eli Turkel
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