[Avodah] international dateline

[Zev Sero]

On 5/01/2012 11:54 AM, Eli Turkel wrote:
>  From an article by R Pahmer in the Journal of  Halacha and Contemporary Society vol 21 (1991).

> The various shitot of where the halachic dateline are:

> 1. Brisker Rav = 90 degrees east of Jerusalem.
> 2. CI = 90 degrees east of Jerusalem but stretched
> 3. Rav Tukishinsky = 180 degrees from EY
> 4. Rav Kasher

This is a false description of the views.  For one thing, R Kasher was
not present at the conference in 1941 where the various shitos were
laid out.  His idea was not one of the the ones discussed, and it did
not play a part in the decision.  Much later, he published a sefer with
maps explaining all the options (and he lists at least a dozen), and
then offers his own "no fixed line" opinion.

For another thing, it lists the BR and CI separately when they're
really variations of the same view; and it omits any options in between.
The shitos considered at the conference basically fall into three
categories: 1. 90 deg;  2. 135-145 deg; 3. 180 deg.  The middle group
is approximately where the current line lies, and it's the machria`;
on each side of it there are two against one.   In particular, the
option that the conference took to be the machria` was that of the
Bnei Tziyon, who holds that the dateline is not a thin line but a
thick band with the status of "bein hashmashot"; and that its western
edge is 135 deg east of J'm, i.e. 10 deg west of where the current
dateline runs.

Getting back to R Kasher's opinion, the source quoted misrepresents it.

> = there is no Torah definition of the dateline and so the rabbis can
> set it at their convenience which is taken to be the international
> dateline.

That is completely false and nonsensical.  Man has no power to be
mekadesh hashabbos, and R Kasher does not claim that he does.

R Kasher's opinion is *loosely based* on the halacha that R Lisa
quoted earlier, about someone who's lost in the desert and has lost
count of the days.  The reason that person has a safek is because he's
lost count; but now consider someone who doesn't know where he is but
does know exactly how long he's been traveling.  He has no safek, and
keeps Shabbos 7 days after the last Shabbos.  Should he not worry that
he has stumbled into an area that has a different Shabbos?  No, says
R Kasher, because there is no such area.  So long as a person is
travelling his Shabbos is always 7 days from the last one.  Even if he
circle the globe like Phileas Fogg, his Shabbos remains the same, and
therefore different from that of the people in the cities that he
passes.  If he circles the globe twice then his Shabbos is two days
removed from the "local" one.   This continues until he arrives in an
established kehillah, at which time he becomes batel to them and must
recalibrate his Shabbos to theirs.

So when should a kehilla be keeping Shabbos?  According to which
direction its founders came from.  R Kasher assumes that all Jewish
kehillos on the Asian side of the current international dateline were
established by Jews coming east, while all kehillos on the American
side were established by Jews coming west, and so the dateline
happens to correspond to the halacha, not because it's convenient
but because it's the metzius.   The Bnei Tzion also has much the
same characteristic: his shita happens to correspond closely to the
current dateline, with a few tiny exceptions.  But in Samoa, where
there is no kehilla, R Kasher would say to keep Shabbos according to
where you come from, while the Bnei Tzion would say it has always
been and remains on the American side, and Shabbos is on what the
locals call Sunday.

But, for instance, R Kasher would be unlikely to hold that, when the
Philippines were on the American side of the dateline, the local Jews
should have kept Shabbos on Saturday.  Assuming that they came from
Asia he would have said that they should keep Shabbos on Friday.
(If it should be determined that they came from America then he would
say that they should now be keeping Shabbos on Sunday.)

>  Hence, all communities would keep shabbat on the local Saturday
>(dont know what he would say about Samoa).

Again, even if it *were* up to us, why should we pick "Saturday"?
Wouldn't it be much more convenient to pick "Sunday", when everything
is closed anyway?  (Especially back then, when this was more true than
it is now?)   And what of places that have no "Saturday"?  What of
places that don't even have a 7-day week?  When the USSR went to a
6-day week, could we have simply decided to keep Shabbos on whatever
it was that they called the rest day?!  That's ridiculous.

> Rav Kasher's opinion is in HaPardes 28th year, vol5, p3 for anyone
> who wants to read the original.

Actually he published a large sefer with maps, outlining all the shitos.

> As I previously wrote in actual fact all communities that I know
> essentially follow Rav Kasher

They could not be doing so, since their practises were established
long before R Kasher was born, let alone before he came up with his
shita.


BTW, R Shlomo Goren held that the dateline is at 149 E, which puts
it approximately through Canberra, with Melbourne on the correct side
but Sydney on the wrong side.

-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name