[Avodah] shabbas//mishum eiva, etc???

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:17:18PM +0100, Chana Luntz wrote:
: > I still don't think shemittah is even applicable, since there are no
: > lavin or chiyuvin deOraisa that the deRabbanan tells you to violate. 
: 
: You don't, but Abaye does.  Abaye uses the language of shev v'al ta'aseh.

Which doesn't mean "violate", it means "do nothing".

...
: > Again, I was just trying to be more specific about what you wrote
: > about when chazal can order a shev ve'al ta'aseh. Not in a din built
: > on trying to implement an idea from the Torah (eg turning pirsumei nisa
: > into neir Chanukah or Megillah), but only when making a gezeirah (which
: > is legislation that prevents accidental violation of another deOraisa).
: > Obviously, if one is calling for the violation of one deOraisa as part
: > of a new law to protect another, it would only make sense if the one
: > being protected is more chamur.
: 
: But nobody is talking about a "violation" of a d'orisa - by which I would
: understand a violation of a lo ta'aseh...

... or a bitul asei. Such as not blowing shofar on Shabbos RH, which is
a gezeirah which calls for a bitul asei that is only okay because it's
besheiv ve'al ta'a.

...
: And, as you have identified, it seems to mean that RYS has to see Kavod
: Habriyos as d'orisa - so where is he getting that from? ...

:        nobody can say that it is a particularly "chamur" d'orisa, given that
: it is not powerful enough to overrule anything except listening to the
: rabbis and shev v'al ta'saeh....

Is qedoshim tihyu deOraisa? Does it overrule too many black-letter halakhos?
I don't see how a fundamental principal like kavod haberios would be much
different.

In any case, see R Dr Nachum Rackover's article at
<http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/kitveyet/shana/kvod-4.htm>, the section titled
"'Gadol Kevod haBeriyot sheDocheh Lo Taaseh shebaTorah'". The quote is from
Berakhos 19b "Gadol kevod haberiyos shedocheh [es] lo sa'asei shebatorah".
(I'm curious to know why there is a shinui girsaos over an "es" -- lemai
nafaq mina?)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Friendship is like stone. A stone has no value,
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