[Avodah] Feedback, causality & G-d

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

I wrote:

> The older I get, the more wary I've become of such absolutist
> statements. Does the Ramban consider the possibility of a person
> who is *mostly* perfect? Would he accept that such a person exists
> *slightly* in the framework of nature?
>
> The way RDE phrases it bothers me very much. I could be wrong, but
> I don't even like the idea of an *average* person being thrown out
> of Hashgacha Pratis and consigned to the laws of chance, or, as he
> put it, "totally in the framework of nature."

R' Daniel Eidensohn responded:

> Seforno[1] (Vayikra 13:47): When a person sins because he follows
> his lusts and thus turns away from G-d's will or he simply rebels
> against G-d, he will be punished justly according to G-d's justice.
> When a person sins accidentally, he will typically be punished
> either financial or physically according to G-d's wisdom in order
> to arouse him repent. In contrast those who are as insensitive as
> one asleep and thus have no realization of what is happening and
> are not motivated to know - this includes all the nations as well
> as the majority of Jews except for a few exceptions - they are
> without doubt under the direction of nature or mazel. They do not
> receive hashgocha protis but rather a general form of Providence
> which is for the species rather than the individual. Thus they
> are like the animals and other forms of life which do not have
> individual Providence. They thus fulfill G-d's will only on the
> level of the group not as individuals.

My complaint was against absolutist views. In other words, I object to an all-or-nothing view such as RDE's explanation of the Ramban, and I prefer a "Midah K'neged Midah" framework, where Hashem deals with us to the same degree as we deal with Him. And it seems to me that this is exactly how the Seforno views it, per his explanation:

The rebel who believes but disobeys is dealt with by Him very personally and severely. The one who believes but was careless is still punished personally, but in a teshuva-designed orientation. It is only the totally unthinking and uncaring one, who G-d chooses to act in an unthinking and uncaring way, consigning him to "nature".

In conclusion, I have no problem with the Seforno as RDE explained him. But that sounds very different than the absolutist views that he pinned on the Ramban.

Akiva Miller

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