[Avodah] "God who knows the future"

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 03:46:32PM -0400, T613K at aol.com wrote:
: Please show me where the Ralbag denies that Hashem knows the future.

Already done. To repeat: Milkhamos Hashem 3:3.

According to the Ralbag, Hashem's knowledge is complete knowledge of
the consequence of every combination of decisions people are capable
of making.

: The sixth one, "all the words of the Nevi'im are true." How can the 
: Nevi'im know the future if Hashem Himself doesn't know the future?

Knowledge of the sort the Ralbag describes is sufficient. Particularly
since we have cases like "veNinveh nehepekhes" where the nevu'ah could
go different ways depending on the listener's consequent decisions.

For that matter, a person's knowledge is quite limited, but it's
hypothetically possible that there is someone who simply never announces
anything he is in the dark about.

Similarly, being the Creator doesn't necessitate Omniscience or
Omnipotence, nor are they necessary for it to be worth worshipping Him.

Try looking at the Ralbag with a clean slate, rather than from a position
of shock at how alien it all seems. At least one Tosafist believed that
G-d had a body. And his argument, actually, is more solid than you'd
think. We can't just ignore rishonim or retrofit them. Even those who
believed things that we today pasqen would make one's wine non-kosher.

: PS. RMB's post about how Hashem is outside of time and therefore terms like 
: "past" and "future" are irrelevant to Him -- all very well, but in our 
: human perspective, Hashem knows our past and our future, so down here on Earth 
: the question about His foreknowledge and our bechira remains...

But our perspective is false, only an approximation of His Reality (for
want of a better word), and not even the best approximation we are
capable of.


The question is that between knowledge and control, as R' Garry put it.
The only reason why this is a question is because we presume that causes
precede effects in time. IOW, if it is already known now what I will
decide tomorrow, then I can't decide otherwise -- or the "knowledge"
is in error. And thus, no free will.

But G-d's knowledge is outside of time and outside the causal chain,
and therefore His knowledge of the future compells my decision as little
as my knowledge of your post from yesterday compells your decision to
write it, as the Or Samayach put it. Or, by placing G-d out of time we
break the causal link that identifies knowledge with outcome and thus
"knowledge =/= control".

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Zion will be redeemed through justice,
micha at aishdas.org        and her returnees, through righteousness.
http://www.aishdas.org
Fax: (270) 514-1507