[Avodah] dina demalchuta

[Zev Sero]

On 19/07/2011 9:26 AM, Eli Turkel wrote:
> Everyone holds that when DMD is valid one must not may follow the local law.

Then you will surely have no problem in demonstrating "step B", by which
those words transform into such an obligation.

On 19/07/2011 8:20 AM, Lisa Liel wrote:
> On 7/18/2011 9:04 PM, Zev Sero wrote:
>> I renew my objection to those who casually step from Shmuel's statement
>> that "dina demalchusa dina" to a conclusion that there is an obligation
>> to obey the law, or a prohibition on breaking the law; how do you get
>> from step A to step C? Nobody has yet even attempted to demonstrate
>> step B; every time I raise the issue I'm answered by obfuscation and
>> assertion and arguments from dubious authority.

> Zev, that's what the words *mean*.

No, it most definitely is not. And that is my point.

On 19/07/2011 6:16 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:04:19PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>>> while halacha allows physical persuation, does dina dmalchuta override that practice?

>> How could it?   What has this got to do with "dina", that you should even
>> have a question? ...
> ...
>> I renew my objection to those who casually step from Shmuel's statement
>> that "dina demalchusa dina" to a conclusion that there is an obligation
>> to obey the law, or a prohibition on breaking the law; how do you get
>> from step A to step C?   Nobody has yet even attempted to demonstrate....

> I thought we would be done with this claim of lack of sources after
> http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol27/v27n155.shtml#10
> (Which was the end of the thread; RZS didn't challenge the list of
> shitos at the time.)

I got sick of beating my head against a wall.  None of the sources
were on topic; none addressed my challenge to demonstrate how you get
from A to C.  You keep citing sources that state *that* DdM is D, and
some that try to come up with reasons *why* DdM is D, or *when* it is,
but none that show the leap from there to where you want to go.

-- 
Zev Sero        If they use these guns against us once, at that moment
zev at sero.name   the Oslo Accord will be annulled and the IDF will
                 return to all the places that have been given to them.
		                            - Yitzchak Rabin