[Avodah] is this muttar?

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:04:19PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> while halacha allows physical persuation, does dina dmalchuta override that practice?
>
> How could it?   What has this got to do with "dina", that you should even
> have a question? ...
...
> I renew my objection to those who casually step from Shmuel's statement
> that "dina demalchusa dina" to a conclusion that there is an obligation
> to obey the law, or a prohibition on breaking the law; how do you get
> from step A to step C?   Nobody has yet even attempted to demonstrate....

I thought we would be done with this claim of lack of sources after
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol27/v27n155.shtml#10
(Which was the end of the thread; RZS didn't challenge the list of
shitos at the time.)

Does Rashi's shitah about dina demalkhusa dina (DDD) /not/ include any law
passed by a court fulfilling the function required in the 7 mitzvos benei
Noach? What about the Maharshal? The Rashbam, invoking social contract?

See also the Rashba as quoted in the Beis Yoseif (CM 308:12), who
pasqened lemaaseh that DDD includes an order for the Jewish community
to investigate a crime before possible gov't sentencing, even if the
case was a capital one. His reasoning is much like the Maharshal's,
already lited in the previous post.

The Maharam Shick (CM 50) has a similar case, of a woman who was accused
of mudering her husband, and writes that DDD obligates us to turn her in
even though there was no eidus, hasraah, or even certainty of her guilt.
(Which I think has relevence to today's reporting abuse cases.)

Hopefuly we can now fully put the topic to rest, that those who take
opinions contrary to RZS's minimalist interpretation do so with sufficient
reason.


That said, I would agree that if this kidnapping (1) actually occured,
and (2) was a BD-ordered "kofin oso ad sheyomar rotzeh ani", DDD wouldn't
trump halakhah.


Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It's nice to be smart,
micha at aishdas.org        but it's smarter to be nice.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - R' Lazer Brody
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