[Avodah] Consumer alert:minhog scams on the rise!

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 09:43:07PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> On 6/07/2011 9:33 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
>> I deny the premise, and thus the conclusion. They thought it was worth
>> repeating, which means that they thought the story relays the right
>> message without negative elements

> The message of R Pinchas ben Yair's donkey *depends* on it being true.
> If it didn't really happen, then what possible proof could one bring
> from it?  What possible lesson could one learn from it?

Again you say proof, but you never answered me what you think the medrash
is there to prove. For that matter, fodder bought as fodder can't become
demai -- RPbY's donkey was more frum than halakhah requires. There is
nothing to prove, in a halachic plane.

>> I'm defending the position of rov rishonim, BTW.

> No, you're not.  Name one rishon who says that R Pinchas ben Yair
> didn't really have a frum donkey, or that R Chanina ben Dosa didn't
> really tell his wife to light vinegar.  I don't believe any such
> rishonim exist.

To be exact: I am saying rov rishonim do not insist they are necessarily
historical. Do not conflate a refusal to take a position with taking
a position against.

As RSRH puts it (tr R Mordechai Breuer
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/hirschAgadaHebrew.pdf>), there is
no methodology for knowing what is literal, and what is not.

I already posted my meqoros, as you haven't responded to them, I have
nothing to add.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The thought of happiness that comes from outside
micha at aishdas.org        the person, brings him sadness. But realizing
http://www.aishdas.org   the value of one's will and the freedom brought
Fax: (270) 514-1507      by uplifting its, brings great joy. - R' Kook