[Avodah] Upsherin

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 06:02:36PM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
> At 03:42 PM 5/26/2011, R. Zev Sero wrote:
>> On 25/05/2011 7:21 PM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>> >> Upsherin is a generations-old minhag for many Ashkenazim.

>> > What is your basis for this assertion?

>> For one thing, it was practised by the Baal Shem Tov's talmidim at least
>> as long ago as 1748.

> I fail to see how this is a basis for saying that "Upsherin is a 
> generation-old minhag for many Ashkenazim," given that Chassidus changed 
> many Ashkenaz minhagim for Sefardic minhogim.  The switch in nusach from 
> Ashkenaz to Sefard is a prime example.

But that established a minhag. Just as Qabbalas Shabbos is a minhag that
for Ashkenazim isn't much older, maybe a generation.

If one of the Besh"t's talmidim's descendents performs an upshering
today, he is an Ashkenazi who has a minhag predating 1748 to do so --
numerous generations old.

Either that, or reject all the changes in the Roedelheim siddur that
aren't mentioned by the Maharil, and in fact all the differences between
the siddur as Ashkenazim davened in the Maharil's day and Rav Amram
Gaon's, and even R' Amram Gaon's siddur must have differences in nusach
from what was said by Chazal, never mind numerous additions...

As I asked before, why is one set of minhagim sacrosanct, but others
sets changes that need reversion? Every set of minhagim is a twig on a
huge bushy evolutionary tree. They all include new ideas and changes,
and probably the vast majority were accepted over the voices of the
older generation complaning about these insane modern chumeros.

> I guess it depends upon how one defines Ashkenazim.  Are those who have 
> abandoned many Ashkenazic minhagim for Sefardic minhagim or for things 
> rooted in kabbala really in the Ashkenaz camp?...

If not, why say they ought to be doing as per the Ashkenazim.

Personally, I think of Ashkenazi as an ethnic and genetic indication
primarily. Minhag Ashkenaz is the minhagim of Ashkenazim.

Second, the Chassidic Nusach Sfard is an Ashkenazi invention to comply
to a system of thought invented by R' Yitzchaq Luria, a/k/a R' Yitzchaq
ben Shelomo Ashkenazi. He was the nephew (and talmid) of Rav Betzalel
Ashkenazi, the Shitah Mequbetzes. It's entirely "homegrown" by Ashkenazi
minds, and the only thing Sepharadic about it is the number of cases
where the nusach the Ari's kavvanos better fit happens to be the one
already used by Sepharadim. In comparably many times, the phrase is from
another source.

Both Ashk and Sfard underwent a huge alteration in minhag in the late
18th and early 19th century, a changing of niqud that impacts a sizable
minority of words. I don't see you using a pre-change siddur...

Minhag, as I wrote, is a bushy evolutionary tree. No one's lineage is
more a straight line than anyone else's.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 38th day, which is
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