[Avodah] Inviting Someone On Shabbos Who Uses the Eruv

[Prof. Levine]

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, R. Akiva Miller wrote:
>*WHY* do you not rely on the eruvin?

Because all the rabbonim whom I followed at the time of its 
institution said that one should not rely on it.

>If you feel that the basic halacha is that the eruvin are mutar, but 
>for whatever reason you choose to be machmir, then what's wrong with 
>inviting that couple? They're not doing anything wrong!

There are poskim who hold that the Eruvim in Flatbush are valid and 
there are fine Jews who do rely upon it. I have no problem with them 
using the Eruv, and would never say anything to anyone who does rely 
on the Eruv that they should not.

>But if you feel that the basic halacha is that it is assur to carry 
>even within these eruvin, despite the lenient poskim who allow it, 
>then how can you possibly suggest that they do something which you 
>hold to be assur?

It is not a question of feelings.  There are those who say yeah and 
those who nay.  I belong to the Nay camp, but again would never 
criticize anyone who belongs to the Yeah camp.  S/he has poskim to rely upon.

[Email #2. -micha]

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, Zev Sero wrote:
>On 9/05/2011 4:46 PM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>> We have several Eruvim here in Flatbush. I do not rely on any of them.

>> Question: May I invite a couple who I know will wheel their baby 
>> in a stroller to eat at my house on Shabbos? They, of course, do 
>> rely on the Flatbush eruv [at least one of them].

>Of course you may.  Even if your strict position were in accordance with
>the majority of poskim, and the eruv were kosher only according to a
>minority or even a daas yochid, they would have the right al pi torah to
>follow that minority opinion and carry, and thus there would be no issue
>of "lifnei iver".   How much more so when the eruvin are kosher according
>to the majority of poskim, and it's merely that you are being a baal nefesh
>and being machmir on yourself by being chosesh for a minority position;
>in such a case not only may you invite them but you may even ask them to
>carry something for you.

I really no longer know the count of how many poskim say one can use 
the Eruv and how many say one cannot.  Almost all of the Young Israel 
shuls in Flatbush announce every Friday night either "The Eruv is up 
or the Eruv is down."

However, at the time that the Eruv was established not long after Reb 
Moshe paskened that one could not make an Eruv in Flatbush,  the 
overwhelming majority of Chareidi Poskim said that it was 
invalid.  Even R. Avigdor Miller, who almost never signed on 
anything, signed a proclamation saying the Eruv was invalid.  Rav 
Schwab who resided in Manhattan signed this also.  To this day R. 
Yisroel Belsky and R. Hillel David hold that one cannot make an Eruv 
in Flatbush.  Both of them are recognized poskim.

So it is not that I have chosen the minority position.  When the Eruv 
controversy first erupted here in Brooklyn, I decided to abide by 
what was then the majority position and would not use the Eruv in 
Flatbush and still do not.

I really would not be comfortable asking someone to carry something 
for me on Shabbos.  Indeed, I do my best to never expect others to do 
what I will not do.

See 
http://tinyurl.com/3k323o3 
<http://eruvonline.blogspot.com/2010/02/rav-dovid-feinstein-shlita-and-flatbush.html>

HaRav Dovid Feinstein Shlita and the Flatbush Eruv Controversy  where it says

"In fact, Rav Tuvia Goldstein zt"l Rosh Yeshiva of Emek Halacha and a 
Talmid/Chaver of Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l, said on numerous occasions 
that based on the current situation Rav Moshe himself would have 
allowed an eruv. [Furthermore it must be stressed that since Rav 
Moshe's shitos in eruvin are admittedly chiddushim (ibid., 1:139:5) 
it is unreasonable to create additional stringencies and extend his 
chiddushim further because one believes that Rav Moshe would always 
have prohibited an eruv.]

Consequentially, there is no reason at all to argue that Rav Moshe 
zt"l would object to the current eruvin in Brooklyn."

[Email #3]

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, R. Akiva Miller wrote:
>*WHY* do you not rely on the eruvin?

Because all the rabbonim whom I followed at the time of its 
institution said that one should not rely on it.

>If you feel that the basic halacha is that the eruvin are mutar, but 
>for whatever reason you choose to be machmir, then what's wrong with 
>inviting that couple? They're not doing anything wrong!

There are poskim who hold that the Eruvim in Flatbush are valid and 
there are fine Jews who do rely upon it. I have no problem with them 
using the Eruv, and would never say anything to anyone who does rely 
on the Eruv that they should not.

>But if you feel that the basic halacha is that it is assur to carry 
>even within these eruvin, despite the lenient poskim who allow it, 
>then how can you possibly suggest that they do something which you 
>hold to be assur?

It is not a question of feelings.  There are those who say yeah and 
those who nay.  I belong to the Nay camp, but again would never 
criticize anyone who belongs to the Yeah camp.  S/he has poskim to rely upon.

[Email #4]

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, M. Cohen wrote:
>Ie
>can I give a food item with a hechsher that I don't use, to some who does?

It is not a question of can I, because on certainly can.  It is a 
question of "will I"  and I would not.

>Can I allow my wife carry in an eruv that I don't rely on?

I can, but I would not.

>Can I give an item of clothing that my community doesn't wear, to someone
>who wears such items?

Not sure what you mean by this.  Are you referring to something that 
is not Tznius.  If so, then I would not.

>If you hold it to be a chumrah, then another doesn't have to hold of your
>chumros.

I do not expect anyone to hold my standards except for me.

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, R. Micha wrote:
>According to R' Dovid Cohen, circa early 80s, RMF prefaced his answer with
>a disclaimer. RMF tried to pursuade the sho'el to go to someone else,
>acknowledging that his pesaq would based on a shitah of his that was a
>daas yachid, and they were better off going elsewhere. But the sho'el
>insisted that the eruv needed RMF's input to get off the ground anyway...

>RDC at the time said that much of his opposition to the Flatbush eruv
>was from the dinim of kavod harav, not hilkhos eruvin.

>And, it would seem that RMF did consider it a chumerah, in at least one
>sense of the word chumerah.

Reb Micha.

Here is an historical footnote that I know you will enjoy, because it 
involves Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Ehrenpreis, Z"L.   Leon, as he was known, 
told me proudly that he and his wife were responsible for Reb Moshe 
saying that one could not make an Eruv in Flatbush for two reasons.

1.  Originally Reb Moshe was told that the distance from Prospect 
Park to Sheepshead Bay was 12 miles.  When Leon heard this, he said, 
"No it is not. I run this distance a few times a week and it is no 
more than 6 miles."

2.  Secondly, Leon told me that he and his wife stood on Ocean 
Parkway at the height of traffic and counted the number of cars that 
went by.  According to their count more than 600,000 people traveled 
on Ocean Parkway at this time.

"I am responsible for Reb Moshe saying one cannot make an Eruv in 
Brooklyn," he told me more than once.

Eliezer was indeed a unique and great man, and he is missed.  YL

[Email #5]

At 01:27 PM 5/10/2011, Zev Sero wrote:
>On 10/05/2011 9:46 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:

>> It it not at all clear to me that not using the Eruv in Flatbush is a
>> chumra. Reb Moshe paskened that one could not make an eruv in Brooklyn,
>> and Rav Belsky holds the same thing, namely, that none of the Eruvim
>> in Brooklyn are valid.

>So who says the halacha is like them?

They do , of course, and add in R. Hillel David another recognized 
who says the Eruv is no good.

>   Why must your guest follow their psak?

Who ever said they have to?  I have no criticism of those who use the 
Eruv, I just am a bit uncomfortable about being the catalyst for 
someone to do this.

When it comes to kashrus I have my own particular standards on use 
only certain hashgachos.  I have no problem with those who rely on 
other hashgachos, but I would never give them something to eat from a 
hashgacho I do not rely upon.

YL