[Avodah] Killing the Mekalel

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 02:10:21AM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: R' Micha Berger asked:
: > How does the meqalal get killed? ... There couldn't have been
: > hasra'ah -- the pasuq was only written in /response/ to the
: > event!

: I have vague memories that this argument proves that the hasra'ah 
: does not need to include which death penalty applies...

I believe we hold otherwise, eg the Yad, Sanhedrin 12:2. We also require
the eidim cite the actual pasuq, which couldn't happen in the meqalel's
case. The pasuq didn't exist yet (R' Yochanan) or it was written (Reish
Laqish) but lacked spacing between the words, wasn't taught by Moshe
to the masses yet... Whatever the case, it is clear from the maaseh the
pasuq giving them their answer wasn't known to anyone around yet.

On Mon, May 02, 2011 at 11:19:57AM +0300, Danny Schoemann wrote:
: The Ramban (Vayikra 24:23) seems bothered by your question and brings
: a Toras Cohanim (20:10) that R"E[l'zer] was of the opinion that this
: was a directive for future offenders.

But then he is not an actual precedent, since the meqalel's case was
thereby special. Hashen's answer includes "mishpat echad yihyeh lachem",
(v 22) as though His prescription for the meqalel /is/ the eternal din.
How then does the pasuq inform future meqlalelim other than implicitely
telling them vaguely "this is very very bad"?

Side question: How do you determine from rashei teivos when it's R'
Elazar and when R' Eliezer?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 19th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        2 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
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