[Avodah] The Singular Way Of Saying Kaddish

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 09:49:48PM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: May I suggest that the source is in Kaddish itself, in the words
: "V'imru Amen".

So you've proven that of a minyan of 10, at most 8 may say qaddish. I
don't think that's actually a tennable position, I am just taking "ve'imru
amein" -- a tzivui belashon rabbim -- doesn't actually prove a need for 9.

Davar shebiqdushah requires 10 INCLUDING the speaker (or the person
choosing misah over shmad). I'm not sure there are requirements about
how many are observers vs performers.

: Some might point out that we [those who say the Harachamans et al]
: say the same thing in Birkas Hamazon at "Oseh Shalom". But that is
: different....

A clearer example. Who are you saying "Ve'imru 'Amein'" to at the end of
E-lokai Netzor? Here we have a call to respond in something said only in
a tefillah belachash. RRW points to this as an example of simple error --
people were used to appending this to the end of the line from Qaddish,
so it crept into their saying EN too.

I would presume the same theory would apply to its presence in benching.

: Would someone suggest that Kedusha doesn't need a similiar number
: of responders, and that it only the brachos of Chazaras Hashatz which
: need nine?

Actually, I could see such an argument. (Bemaqom she'ein ish... <grin>)

It's just that we don't often (I can't dream up) a case where you would
have exactly a minyan, and two people saying Qedushah. With 11 people,
it could happen that the 11th came late and is saying his Shemoneh Esrei
along with the chazan saying Chazaras haShatz. But with 10 people, how
could they be up to ChS if the other 9 weren't already at least started?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It's nice to be smart,
micha at aishdas.org        but it's smarter to be nice.
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