[Avodah] Women and Tallis

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 08:47:55PM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: R' Micha Berger wrote:
: > We do many things that come from sources outside the mitzvah.
: > "Hinei Keil yeshuasi" before Havdalah, for example.
: 
: If one simply mumbles the words, then your point is valid...

You are adressing details about my examples that aren't my primary
point.

:> Qabbalas Shabbos. Etc, etc, etc...

: Ditto

Saying a collection of pesuqim before Havdalah is nice, but it's ritual,
not halakhah. Similarly a standard set of peraqim of Tehillim and a
piyut. Or a kumtzitz.

Is a kumzitz any better of a thing to wax nostalgic about than RYBS's
example of a white tablecloth for Shabbos? If the latter is a ritual,
a trapping, why not the former?

Skipping back:
:> Why is this woman wanting to do something that makes her feel
:> connected to the Borei valueless just because it is non-halachic?

: I'd put the emphasis elsewhere. I agree that merely being non-halachic
: is not a good enough reason to declare something valueless. However,
: the one who calls it "valuable" must be able to show where the value
: is located.

And the kumzitz is about the same hunting game as this woman's
mitzvah-less special beged.

: > aveilus during the 3 weeks and 9 days because of his position that
: > all minhagim are stamped with the matbei'os of halakhah, and thus
: > the aveilus of this period must parallel to the kinds of mourning
: > of the mitzvah derabbanan of aveilus.

: A new variant? Or merely an alternate explanation of existing
: minhagim? Please, teach me more!

No, a new variant, he had to declare parts of common practice in error
in order to fit it.

Most people do not permit someone getting a haircut during the 3 weeks
when it gets bad enough for friends to comment. And yet RYBS does because
of a parallel to aveilus after sheloshim.

The 9 days are like sheloshim? So where is the minhag not to eat meat
coming from?


(Side question: Didn't RYBS say that the reason why a child has 11
months but a parent who r"l loses a chlid does not is kibud av va'eim,
not compelled by aveilus itself? If so, what's the parallel to the
three weeks?)

: And when I finally got near the Leadership side of YU's Torah Leadership
: Seminar, one of the first things I did was to print a songbook with
: translations of the songs we sang at our kumzitzin, because I do agree
: that it is difficult (though not impossible) to find value therein if
: one does not understand what he is singing.

Agreed. But that value is not halachic.

Recall my recent quoting R' Chaim Brown's translation of RYBS. It took
him a while to understand the point of nevi'im if they aren't re'uyim
lechadeish devar halakhah. Nu, RYBS concludes like the rest of us would --
to reinforce values and teach aggadita; but only someone raise in Beis
Brisk would actually have ever had the question.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
micha at aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller