[Avodah] Refusal to pay, BM 17a

[Yitzchak Schaffer]

I don't think we're talking about the same case. I'm at the top of 17a seven lines down, with Rashi's peshat at DH veha-edim me'idim, which I understand as: [they testify that] in front of us, he [malveh] made a claim that he [loveh] should pay acc. to the words of BD, and he did not pay [i.e. refused]. Because he brazenly defied BD in front of them, he is no longer trusted to say that he [subsequently] paid without edim.

So: no lies, no changing of stories - just recalcitrance against BD, which knocks out his ne'emanus. 

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Yitzchak Schaffer

On Jan 11, 2011, at 14:36, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> But he doesn't claim he already paid. He says "ein lekha beyadi kelum".
> Then after the eidim, "chazar ve'amar" (shades of another thread), he
> change his story.