[Avodah] bavel leadership

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:07:50AM +0200, Ari Z. Zivotofsky wrote:
>> There was learning in Bavel. Given how Hillel floored the Benei Beseira
>> when he made Aliyah,  ...

> did hillel do most of his learning in Bavel?
> he is called a talmid of Shmaya and Avtalyon who were nasi and av beis  
> din and thus living in EY.

But that may be more shalsheles hamesorah -- they led after Shemayah
veAvtalyon, so the time they spent learning under them is emphasized
when we discuss how their mesorah links back to Moshe.

I based my argument as implied in the sentence. Hillel didn't wow
the Sanhedrin until his return from Bavel. I therefore figured it
was something he learned in Bavel. Trying to reconstruct his life,
I get that he was born in Bavel and moved to EY to learn under
S&A at age 40 (although the mishnah could be using a code age, not a
biographical detail, it was that /kind/ of age). He then moved back to
Bavel where he did some more learning until the event where he
succeeds the Benei Beseira.

Alternatively, he learned under S&A a very short time. Then they passed
away when Hillel was still considered a newcomer. I find that less
plausible, because "keshe'alah" sounds a lot more immediate (the time
has to include the whole freezing on the roof story).

The Benei Beseira are themselves a historical enigma. Their leadership
of the Sanhedrin would seem to be a short historical iterregnum between
the zugos.

In any case, my reconstruction appears to be peshat in Sukkah 20a. Reish
Laqish says "hareini kaparas R' Chiya uvanav" and then explains why he
accords R' Chiya (or as the Y-mi and Medrash Rabba call him, "R' Chiya
Raba") such respect. The first time the Torah was forgotten from Israel,
Ezra came up from Bavel and reestablished it, when it was forgotten again,
Hillel haBavli came up and reestablished it, and when it was forgotten,
R' Chiya and his sons came up [also from Bavel] and established it.

Which would seem to imply that EY needed Hillel. Not that EY was the
center of learning.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha at aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rav Yisrael Salanter