[Avodah] Chazal/Mtziut

[Micha Berger]

I don't have time for a detailed description of all of the Sedei
Chemed's position, his examples, meqoros, etc... However, since I am
posting because I found something else to add, here is the sound-bite
version first.

There can be machloqesin in unverifiable metzius, at least according
to some sources. E.g. whether there was gold on the mouthpieces of the
shoferos in the BHMQ is the topic of a machloqes amora'im.

Machloqesin that look like they're about metzi'us that could be
systematically checked are really about relevence. E.g. they don't argue
as to whether cooked matzah changes its taste, but whether the resulting
taste is still within the bounds of ta'am matzah. Or, the SA and the
(forgot who) don't argue about whether or not something actually was the
minhag of most Jews in their day, but whether "the minhag of rov Yisrael"
means EY or includes Jews in the golah.

And the SC brings earlier sources with each of these resolutions. As
well as a gemara that explicitly says there can't be a machloqes in a
metzi'us *that is before us*.

I just caught up with yesterday's daf, Challah 1. Amud beis through
2a discusses the 5 minim. One of the ways the Yerushalmi establishes
the 5 minim is by experiment -- which grains mixed with water are ba
liydei matzah vechameitz, and which are liydei sirchon. R' Yochanan
ben Nuri says qaramis is chayeves bechalakh. Rabbanan say it isn't.
So, the gemara asks, why not just check? A question of metzi'us!

    Al iqar bediqasah hein chaluqin.
    RYBN amar badquha umatz'uha shehi ba'ah liydei matzah vechameitz.
    Rabbanin amrei badquha velo matz'u oso shehi shehi ba'ah liydei
    matzah vechameitz.

So, the question we're discussing boils down to how we teitch the phrase
"al iqar bediqasah hein chaluqin".

Apparently the "iqar" is not the results of the bediqah, but on what to
check. They check the resulting mush/dough. It did something chemically,
but how to we categorize the product of that reaction -- is that chameitz
or sirchah? The set of physical realities that fall under each halachic
chalos-sheim is under dispute, not the particular physical reality. "Al
iqar bediqasah" -- what one should actually check for -- "hein chaluqin."

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Every second is a totally new world,
micha at aishdas.org        and no moment is like any other.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Rabbi Chaim Vital
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