[Avodah] Sukka must be kosher for sleeping?

[Zev Sero]

On 5/10/2010 1:26 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
> From: Zev Sero<zev at sero.name>
> : It depends, of course, on how unpleasant it is in the  first place; also
> : on how long one must go on liking it.  But one can  often psych oneself
> : into enjoying otherwise unpleasant experiences for a  short while; alcohol
> : helps, as do being with a group who are all doing it  together, and an
> : inspiring speaker or leader.  ....
>
> Is psyching oneself into enjoying something really "akh sameiach",
> or simchah at all, for that matter?

Simcha is all in the mind.  It's a chemical experience; if your brain is
being flooded with the correct chemicals you are objectively happy, no
matter how they got there.


> I have a feeling our different viewpoints derives from the difference
> between chassidus and mussar, and how deeply one is expected to analyze
> the honesty and reality of what one is feeling.

I don't think there's anything dishonest or unreal in a happiness that
is deliberately self-induced.


[Email #2. -micha]


On 4/10/2010 3:43 PM, T613K at aol.com wrote:
> This is far-fetched. Liquoring up is all very well, but I don't
> believe all Lubs psych themselves into believing that they are having
> a wonderful time in the sukkah when they're sitting there soaking in
> the rain, their clothing, hats, tables and food drowned in water.

In my experience I've never yet come across a L who seemed actually
miserable while eating in the sukkah.  The enjoyment might be minimal
enough that one eats up quickly and rush inside, which shows that the
discomfort is real and conscious, and certainly people will delay their
meals in hope of the rain letting up, but I really can't think of anyone
who seemed sitting there out of pure kabbolas ol, while feeling sad and
miserable and wishing he weren't there.

But more than that, on many occasions I've seen people remain in the
sukkah in the rain after they'd finished eating, rather than rushing
in to the house.  They were sitting, singing, listening to words of
torah, saying lechayim and eating a bit with it, and ignoring the fact
that they were getting wet.  They could easily have gone inside with
a good conscience, but chose not to, mostly because nobody else was;
as I wrote, a group experience helps with this sort of thing.  And
their faces didn't show any feeling that they'd really rather be inside
but didn't want to lose face; rather, being outside with the group was
a genuinely pleasurable experience, even though it would have been even
more pleasant in the dry.


> Are you telling us that Lubs don't wait and don't get upset and don't
> even think rain the first night is a negative sign at all

That's right.  In my experience, anyway.


> You didn't explain why they don't sleep in the sukkah, either.

L don't sleep in the sukkah because the Rebbe didn't, which was
because his father-in-law didn't, which was because none of the LRs
ever did.  The reason recorded is that the Mitteler Rebbe said he
couldn't fall asleep in Makifin Debina; the consciousness of where
he was kept him awake.  Chassidim who heard this could no longer fall
asleep, because trying to sleep they would remember that the rebbe
was being kept up by the Makifin Debina, and they would get upset
that they themselves couldn't feel this, and it felt like an ordinary
tent or hut.  Later chassidim would feel upset that this insensitivity
on their part no longer bothered them.  (This chain can in theory go
on ad infinitum, but at some point it comes down to simply doing it
because ones rebbe does it, rather than because one feels upset at not
caring {that one doesn't care}... that one doesn't feel what he does.)
About 60 years ago the LR said that those who don't sleep in the sukkah
because his FIL didn't, "tovo aleihem bracha"; that probably helped
promote this behaviour even among those who might otherwise have slept.

BTW, L are hardly the only ones with such a minhag.  The Belzer rebbes
didn't sleep in the Sukkah, and in Dzikov the feeling against sleeping
in the sukkah was so strong that if someone dozed off while sitting
there, others would shout at him "nu, sukkah"!   The Satmar Rebbe ZL
married into an offshoot of Dzikov, and when he wanted to sleep in the
sukkah his brothers-in-law prevented it.  There were many other rebbes
and chassidim who davka didn't sleep in the sukkah.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                      - Margaret Thatcher